Posts by carlhancock

49 posts
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carlhancock says

Bottom line:

This is a market place. Authors want to sell, authors want to be different from the rest. And yes, it’s a good thing that we moving more towards the good practices and uses as WordPress.org intended, but this is still a market place: no place for happy opensource wordpress plugin packages for all to share so we all get themes with all the same shortcode happiness.

edit: besides, most authors already share enough – which is a good thing at the level it’s going on now..

This has nothing to do with WordPress.org. This has to do with the great WordPress community, including the commercial market as a whole.

If you don’t know who I am, I am one of the co-founders of Gravity Forms. One of the most successful commercial WordPress plugins on the market. 99% of our support issues related to theme conflicts we encounter are caused by poorly developed ThemeForest themes. 99%. This is a fact.

I can tell you with 99% accuracy when one of our support team encounters a conflict caused by a poorly developed theme that the theme is from ThemeForest. Sadly i’m not exaggerating at all.

What ThemeForest authors that don’t know what they are doing don’t realize is how their work impacts others. Our company has wasted more money in support time dealing with issues caused by poorly developed ThemeForest themes than you’ve made in your entire time selling WordPress themes.

All this could be avoided by simply following best practices… guidelines being implemented by Envato now.

I don’t give a damn if this makes Theme Authors get in the good graces with WordPress.org or the open source communithy, what I give a damn is about ThemeForest themes not wasting my employees valuable time and my money paying them to support poorly developed themes.

A side effect of this is we help these customers fix these crap themes. And then they’ll never buy a ThemeForest theme again. This impacts ThemeForest and Envato. Not the author.

Standards and guidelines help prevent situations like this. Quit fighting. Accept it. Find a way to work with it. Your work will be better for it. Envato is doing a good thing.

49 posts
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  • Has been a member for 6-7 years
carlhancock says

This is not possible with all the different attributes. I want to put in my own options and sure as hell want to put in options to compete against other authors. This is just never ever gonna work. Not for stuff on a market place

It’s 100% possible to standardize a base set of shortcodes into a standard ThemeForest plugin with standard base styles specifically for theme authors all to use so that there aren’t 100 different implementations of the same thing.

If it also possible to then use CSS for the theme to customize the look of the shortcode output by overriding and applying additional styles to the standardized output.

Now the good part.

It’s also possible through the magic of these things called hooks and filters to make shortcodes that would support a theme adding additional options.

A WordPress developer with even knowledge about WordPress development to sell themes and plugins to the public would know this. And this is one of the major problems with ThemeForest.

Too many people hacking together themes that look beautiful and shiny on the outside but are a muddled, copy-n-pasted, and completed wrecked under the hood because they really don’t know what they are doing. Most of you are front end developers. You don’t know what’s going on under the hood and it shows. Believe me, it shows.

This is why ThemeForest is implementing these guidelines. You guys put yourself in this position.

I applaud Envato and ThemeForest for tightening the reigns. The entire WordPress development community applauds it and it’s time for the ThemeForest Theme Authors to understand why they are necessary and embrace them. If nothing else you’re going to learn a lot you didn’t already know because you are going to need to in order to meet the guidelines.

49 posts
  • Bought between 1 and 9 items
  • Has been a member for 6-7 years
carlhancock says

Its about time a major theme author provided some feedback on this matter, and we will do such soon.

I agree. Maybe someone from StudioPress, WooThemes, iThemes, Heqdway, Press75, Organic Themes or maybe OBOX should chime in. Real experts at building WordPress themes who would applaud Envato’s move to enforce stricter coding standards.

Oh wait, you were referring to yourself. As a self proclaimed major theme author and therefore you must know more than everyone else. Because obviously everyone else on here are simply a bunch of idiots.

If your goal was to add something constructive to th conversation, you failed.

If your goal was to come cross like a cocky jerk, mission accomplished

Th next part of my rly is directed at everyone fighting the new rules.

I still can’t believe this thread is going on over 70 pages. Envato’s guidelines are going to benefit the community and users as a whole. Any true WordPress “expert” with half a brain could come to that conclusion.

You can argue otherwise, but it’s likely because you either A) Fear change B) Don’t want to do the work necessary to make your themes compliant of C) Simply don’t know what you are doing so have no hope if complying with the guidelines because you have no business selling themes to begin with.

Unfortunately based on a lot of the replies in this thread there are a lot of people that fall under option C above,

49 posts
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  • Has been a member for 6-7 years
carlhancock says

I get it. And I use tab indentation:). My point is that coding rules are really important just for a small group of our clients, and responsive design affects everyone. Most clients don’t care if there are four spaces at the beginning of each line instead of one tab.

I’m sorry, did I just read you say clients don’t care about coding standards as if therefore it shouldn’t matter to you? The average customer doesn’t care about coding rules and standards because they don’t know what they are which is why they are buying your theme expecting you to be a professional and apply best practices, code rule and standards for them.

Sure the average customer buys superficially. Design and features. But they damn sure car when their beautifully designed themes is a disaster under the hood causing plugin conflicts, etc. Then they learn to care.

That’s why it is so damn important that if you are selling themes (or plugins) that you apply best practices. You abide by coding rules and standard. You do the right thing even when the customer wouldn’t have any idea because you simply want to do the right thing.

A good theme should be just as beautiful under the hood as the design the client and visitors see.

I can’t believe I actually heard you say the customer doesn’t care about code rules and standards so why should the developers building the them? Incredible.

If I ran Envato I’d ask any author that thought that this was a good idea to kindly leave and sell their good elsewhere.

If you are going to sell themes (or plugins) you better know your shit. That means applying best practics. That means applying good coding rules and standards to your code both on the fronted and backed. You damn sure shouldn’t fight having best practices and coding standards that are ultimately improve your product.

There’s a lot of people selling commercial themes and plugins that have absolutely have no business doing so and the code quality and problems they cause cost other people money.

We’ve fixed so many ThemeForest themes while supporting Gravity Forms so to poor code causing a plugin conflict and breaking functionality. We helped them. We fixed the issue. Now every one of those customers will no longer buy from ThemeForest as a whole because the theme authors bad code makes ThemeForest and Envato look bad in the process.

The theme author ultimately has no clue their poor code just cost us more support time which means as one of the co-founders of our company those support hours cost me money. A lot of support dollars wasted by theme developers who didn’t know what they are doing and had they followed best practices, has they applied the rules and guidelines their new coding standards call for, these conflicts would not have occurred.

These coding standards are a positive thing for the entire community. Instead of complaining or fighting these new rules, people should go learn what they need to change to meet the standards and start applying them. This change by Envato is fantastic and long term ThemeForest will be a more reliable source of WordPress themes because of these changes.

It may also help weed out the authors that shouldn’t be selling themes because they really don’t know what they are doing.

It’s easy to make a WordPress theme. It’s much harder to make a good WordPress theme.

49 posts
  • Bought between 1 and 9 items
  • Has been a member for 6-7 years
carlhancock says

@carlhancock Let’s not talk about the restrictions of shortcodes on ThemeForest, but is there anyway to fix the broken shortcodes caused by wpautop that you can think of without modifying wpautop and without using filters? Because the native shortcode_unautop is not very useful before they patch it :(

Like I mentioned to another commenter, I don’t have a solution to this particular issue. But the one on github pointed out by @OriginalEXE might possibly be an option, although i’ve never used it and I can’t say if it is or isn’t allowed under Envato guidelines.

I just know that the RAW/NOFORMAT method that lots of theme developers have been using is very destructive and should be avoided.

I completely understand the issue it’s trying to solve. It’s a real issue that can be a pain in the butt to deal with. Unfortunately this particular solution causes far bigger problems in the process of fixing a single problem. It’s a destructive solution.

49 posts
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carlhancock says

Regarding column shortocde, I really don’t understand why it needs to mess with filters for it’s functionality?

Like I said in one of my replies just before this one, the issue isn’t necessarily the column shortcode directly. Although sometimes it is. It depends on how the column functionality is implemented.

In some situations the column shortcode itself isn’t the issue, it’s the fact that auto-formatting that WordPress does on content placed within a column shortcode causes issues with the display of the columns and the content on the front end.

Because of that it is typically paired with another shortcode such as RAW or NOFORMAT so that the content placed within the column is encapsulated in a shortcode that does not apply the WordPress auto-formatting. Because the WordPress auto-formatting can cause issues with the content within the columns lining up properly, etc.

Obviously there are ways to get around this if you really put your mind to it. The problem is most people aren’t doing that. They are re-using existing code, etc. without realizing the consequences. People are copy-n-pasting code to accomplish something and that code is doing it in a destructive way. Which is how the RAW/NOFORMAT shortcode spread to so many themes both on ThemeForest and elsewhere.

49 posts
  • Bought between 1 and 9 items
  • Has been a member for 6-7 years
carlhancock says

I’m really confused. Changing default Wordpress behaviour, such as manipulating the wpautop is obviously a massive no-no, as a theme developer I know that and I assumed it was already a requirement to not change them when submitting to themeforest.. But what has that got to do with shortcodes such as columns? Columns shortcodes should be nothing more than an easy way to wrap certain blocks of text (or other shortcodes) within HTML elements with a specific CSS class that make them be a certain width, I don’t see why anyone would change Wordpress behaviour inside the code to create a column shortcode. Am I missing something really obvious?

It depends on how the column shortcode is implemented. There is a variety of ways. Another issue isn’t the column shortcode directly, it’s how the theme developer advises users to use it.

Because anything appearing within the column shortcodes is going to be auto-formatted, theme developers often pair it with the raw/noformat shortcode that manipulates wpautop so that auto-formatting is not applied.

This way they can implement columns and not run into issues with the auto-formatting causing issues with the column formatting due to the content the user places within the columns themselves.

Then there are others that implement the wpautop manipulation directly on the column shortcode so that auto-format is not applied to anything within the column shortcode.

Because WordPress auto-formatting that occurs when wpautop is applied can cause issues with columns, work arounds that involve manipulating wpautop are commonly used to combat it. And it does work. But unfortunately it has negative side effects that impact other things on the site such as plugins and shortcode output.

Read Pippin’s article on it for more info… and i’ll get him to chime in here with more details.

49 posts
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carlhancock says

@carlhancock – maybe I don’t understand, but if you don’t recommend manipulating wpautop then how do you prevent stair stepping such as this: http://mysitemyway.com/support/topic/multiple-buttons-aligned-left-create-a-stair-step-layout

It’s not that I don’t recommend manipulating wpautop, it’s that you shouldn’t do it and it’s against ThemeForest guidelines to do so. It changes core WordPress behavior and can (and will) negatively impact plugins, etc.

It isn’t something a theme should do unless you have 100% control of the web site and fully understand the impact in implementing such a change will have. Something that you don’t have when you are selling a theme.

I wish I had a solution to how to do what you describe without manipulating wpautop, but off the top of my head I do not. But i’m sure there is a way around it without changing core WordPress behavior. Read Pippins article for a better explanation as to why you shouldn’t manipulate wpautop.

49 posts
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carlhancock says

According to Japh, the list of inadmissible shortcodes refers to theme itself and not plugins.

I’ll have to ask Japh. Because a couple guidelines, such as not modifying wptexturize and wpautop behavior doesn’t matter if its in a theme or a plugin, it’s destructive either way. And some shortcodes such as the column and raw shortcodes do just that. So it doesn’t matter if its in a theme or a plugin, it’s destructive behavior.

http://pippinsplugins.com/never-remove-the-default-the_content-filters-in-themes/
49 posts
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carlhancock says

If you can share some links to articles explaining other common problems theme authors are causing, as well as resources where we can learn how to develop clean plugins and themes, I am sure everyone here will appreciate it a lot :)

Here’s a great post that discusses why code that manipulates the content output to implement functionality such as the columns shortcode should not be done:

http://pippinsplugins.com/never-remove-the-default-the_content-filters-in-themes/

It discusses why changing core WordPress behavior involving the wptexturize and wpautop functionality should be avoided. It’s why shortcodes such as the columns shortcode, raw/noformat shortcode and others are not allowed under the new guidelines,

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