Posts by mordauk

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mordauk says


@FinalDestiny If you need 50 plugins to replicate your layouts, you’re doing something seriously wrong.

Quick (by no means conclusive) count:

1. A plugin for a contact form 2. A plugin for a page builder (assuming Envato decides to not allow these) 3. A plugin for ecommerce, if your theme supports it 4. A plugin (maybe) for pricing tables. These are still allowed, so entirely optional 5. A plugin for columns

So I count 5, and 3 of those are optional for the vast majority of themes.
This is coming from somebody that doesn’t even have any items in ThemeForest. It’s easy for you to support these requirements when you obviously don’t have to update all your ThemeForest items.

No, I don’t have themes in Theme Forest (I’m a plugin developer), but I can tell you how many thousands of hours I have lost due to supporting broken themes that these new requirements are meant to alleviate.

Try and tell me that building and maintaining your own contact form (just as an example) that is implemented separately in every theme you build is easier to update than supporting a plugin via just a few lines of CSS.

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mordauk says


The mentality that “Standards” mean you can’t be creative is so horribly wrong. By embracing standards, theme and plugin developers can build things that work in tandem instead of constantly fighting conflicts.
But if all theme’s functionality need to rely on the plugins, I’m wondering how can theme authors push their ideas and creativity to the edge?

Just because major functionality needs to be in a plugin doesn’t mean you can’t create your own plugins.

For example, if your theme is based around major portfolio features (filtering, categorization, grids, galleries, etc), build a portfolio plugin that is built specifically with the features you want, then style / implement the features provided by the plugin in your theme.

Just because the code exists in a plugin doesn’t mean you can’t be creative. The code is the same no matter where it exists.

Also by placing your major features in a plugin, you can really easily include those features in all of the themes you build. Update the plugin once and all of your themes have the update. So much easier to maintain.

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mordauk says

Creating custom post types ruins the whole idea of this thread, since those can’t be moved anywhere else on another theme. It’s as simple as that. If there’s no solution for those, why would there be for shortcodes? They’re both functionalities. And who will provide support in the end for the users using our functionalities in other themes?

No not really. There are always exceptions to the rules, but not having rules just creates a free for all that hurts everyone in the end.

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mordauk says

@FinalDestiny I don’t have an answer for you on portfolios. That is a tricky one, but I don’t think Envato is disallowing portfolio post types, so you are still free to do those as you wish.

The mentality that “Standards” mean you can’t be creative is so horribly wrong. By embracing standards, theme and plugin developers can build things that work in tandem instead of constantly fighting conflicts.

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mordauk says



2. About the wpautop – I know we cannot screw with the wp core but can we still filter for example our shortcodes to avoid p and br tags injection all over the theme?
No, you cannot do that. Those filters cause major compatibility problems with hundreds of plugins. I’ve personally lost 100s of support hours due to those filters. Utilize this instead: justintadlock.com/archives/2012/10/03/grid-columns-wordpress-plugin
No, they don’t if done right: https://gist.github.com/bitfade/4555047

Yes, they can be done right. Unfortunately the vast majority of themes that have implemented those have not done it right. It became so much of a problem that it’s been put on the “black list” because it’s so easy to get wrong.

Rely on a plugin like Justin Tadlocks (a truly top notch developer that is respected and revered throughout the entire WP dev community) and you don’t even need to worry about this.

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mordauk says

@UXbarn For contact forms, there are several reasons:

1. If a user has a theme that provides a “Contact Page” template and they utilize it for their contact form, then switch themes to one that doesn’t have a contact page template, the user will lose their contact form.

2. There are four extremely popular and well-supported plugins that provide all of the basic contact form functionality plus so much more. No matter what theme a user is using, their contact page will still work if the form is provided by a plugin. Ninja Forms, Formiddable Forms, Gravity Forms, Contact Form 7 . . . all are excellent options.

3. It is more worth a theme developer’s time to invest time making the theme (styles, layouts, etc) than it is to focus on building a basic or advanced contact form. In 30 minutes, you can easily provide full support for any of the plugins I”ve mentioned by writing a few lines of CSS.

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mordauk says

@FinalDestiny If you need 50 plugins to replicate your layouts, you’re doing something seriously wrong.

Quick (by no means conclusive) count:

1. A plugin for a contact form 2. A plugin for a page builder (assuming Envato decides to not allow these) 3. A plugin for ecommerce, if your theme supports it 4. A plugin (maybe) for pricing tables. These are still allowed, so entirely optional 5. A plugin for columns

So I count 5, and 3 of those are optional for the vast majority of themes.

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mordauk says

2. About the wpautop – I know we cannot screw with the wp core but can we still filter for example our shortcodes to avoid p and br tags injection all over the theme?

No, you cannot do that. Those filters cause major compatibility problems with hundreds of plugins. I’ve personally lost 100s of support hours due to those filters. Utilize this instead: justintadlock.com/archives/2012/10/03/grid-columns-wordpress-plugin

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mordauk says

I do not write a contact form because i think that it will sell my theme i write it for the following reasons:

1. Seamless integration. Plugins looks like a Porche fixed with Beetle parts. it’s ugly nobody wants ugly.

2.Saves me time because I do not have to spend the time supporting all the plugins that’s out there, and do not enqueue javascript correctly and and and …....... I code once and support rarely.

3. a lot of plugin authors support is notoriously absent and if a client does not get support from the authors they will come to me and send me 100 mails for assistance, and get angry if i give them the run around. Writing my own functionality means that i will save on time. save on support and have happy customers.

4. A lot of the customers do not choose the plugins that they are getting, but the developers that they appointed chose that. 3 years from buying the theme the customers clicks update on a plugin and all sorts of hell is loose and the developers do not fix their stuff they send the customer to the theme author. Writing my own code fixes all of that.

5. Thinking that the customer will not try different plugins in his lifetime is a crazy idea, and there’s absolutely zero convergence between plugins, so the “loose my functionality if i change themes” is stupid. They loose it anyhow when they try a new plugin

1. You’re clearly using the wrong plugins or are completely ignorant to some of the great options out there. Gravity Forms, Formiddable, Ninja Forms—All three are excellent options that look and work great. In order to support them you need nothing more than a few lines of CSS.

2. Saves you time by spending hours writing your own contact form functionality (assuming it’s not just a simple email form that can be done in 20 minutes)? Utilizing an existing solution that provides far more advanced functionality than you can write in an hour actually saves so much more time. The three plugins I mentioned above are lead by development teams that operate their entire business around their form plugins. Trying to claim that they don’t offer support or that they don’t fix bugs is nothing short of pure arrogance.

3. Then choose the well supported plugins, like the three I mentioned.

4. Using the TGM Activation class you can choose the recommended plugin(s) for your buyers. If the customers choose to use something else, that’s their decision.

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mordauk says


I’ve mentioned this to Japh, but one of the best things Envato could do along with these new regulations is to provide a list of “standard plugins” that all themes should consider supporting.
Sure, why not just give a standard theme like TwentyEleven + 4-5 plugins, and ask authors to just change colors in it? Because you are not allowed to add anything else in it? :sarcasm:

I don’t mean for Envato to create these standard plugins, I mean for Envato to list a set of recommended plugins.

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