Posts by ChapterThemes

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ChapterThemes says

N00b! ;)

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ChapterThemes says

@UBL , supporting WPML is not required..

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ChapterThemes says

@nagaemas

Thanks for your reply.

The Visual Compiler plugin also uses backbone since a while and i’ve studies the plugin. Allthough the plugin works fine, i think it’s a way too big overkill of many many code and separate files, and now with backbone i couldn’t say it’s is any less.

Besides that, it’s still using ajax to for example save or load a template. Also, in previous versions it loaded the block settings page through ajax in a modal. Now all setting windows are put inside a script tag inside the DOM of the post page. Now the WP media uploader does the same thing, but that’s only for one window. The VC pagebuilder has like 30 modules, and is putting 30 blocks of code in the DOM, which are loaded with backbone inside the modal when changing settings.

Now, the ‘app’ itself is a bit faster while opening a settings modal, but the main page is 2 times as big to load in the first place. Doesn’t that matter? Wouldn’t it be better to just use ajax for such thing?

Also, you and others indeed say you don’t need to work with selectors etc. But what about this:

events: {
    "change #filter select": "setFilter" 
},

this.on("change:filterType", this.filterByType, this);

"click #add": "addContact" 

These are rules from some tutorial, but they don’t call these selectors, but isn’t it some ‘like’ selectors. If you create interaction you still have to connect elements to a certain action, it’s only written in a different way.

I’ve read this tut btw: http://net.tutsplus.com/sessions/build-a-contacts-manager-using-backbone-js/ – it’s good explanation i think since this is the first article that gave me a good view on how backbone is used and what it does.

I’m just kicking some rocks and throwing in some thoughts to discuss with btw :)

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ChapterThemes says

I’m trying to figure out possibilities and reasons for my plugins to rework them to use backbone.

I’m new to backbone and whenever i see some starter tutorial or a little more advanced one, i still can’t really find the real benefit of using backbone.

Most people say because of the wonderful data models you can set up with it and you don’t have to manipulate the DOM with hidden input fields etc.

But then i see some invoice calculator example with like 50 lines of code and all it does is calculates the total of a couple of checkboxes with a price behind it. And the example is trying to set a point why to use backbone for webapps etc.

Most of my plugins are using things like dynamically adding values for whatever, done with jquery and sometimes putting in hidden formfields to save the data.

How is backbone better for such usage?

If anyone has some good links please share!

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ChapterThemes says

Did he pay extra for that plugin? You’re damn right he did! He paid on average $45 to $60 compared to $30-$35, a simple theme’s price. So how’s the extra $15 to $30 as compensation for your plugin? Sounds good to me.

No, you are totally wrong.

A very beautiful well designed theme, without super plugins or some tech-savy feature is still priced 40 to 45 bucks.

Prices of 30 bucks aren’t used in a long time for themes.

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ChapterThemes says

@ChapterThemes, I am sorry to disagree with your way of seeing things, but IF the issue is within your plugin’s CODE, its functionality, it falls on your shoulder to fix it, no matter the theme it gets applied to. If you have a poorly written PHP or JS block that causes the thing to crash, it is your responsibility to fix it, just as it is now. And that’s how it should be fair both to users and for a respectable author. Again, and I need to reiterate this -> IT WOULD NOT fall on your shoulders to fix design/styling issues of your plugin in another author’s theme, as long as the mechanism of the plugin works perfectly. Let me give an example:

You create a tab shortcode functionality. User switches themes. Tabs stop floating, lose colors and whatever else you want from the styling, BUT they retain the translation from shortcode to visual HTML, maybe even the JS actions of clicking to show each tab.

- OR:

A buttons shortcode will return a simple unstyled A tag, instead of one using predefined color, backgrounds, border-radius and so on.

These two examples SHOULD NOT fall on your shoulders as to support and to update to a user’s new theme. Catch my drift?

Well in this case you don’t totally disagree with me.

Like i said before – it’s easy to supply simple function styling so that every feature keeps working but in a very basic form. And have theme-related styling inside the theme stylesheet.

Also, when discussing this, i talk about good coded themes and plugins ofcourse.

People worry about lame simple things as column shortcodes, tabs? Hell those things are like a gazillion around – those are not features that make a theme unique.

I do however have the oppinion that advanced super features for some niche theme should not be portable as a fully working plugin inside other themes – EXCEPT if the theme price will go from say 45 to 70 bucks – since then people will also purchase a plugin which they can fully use.

But i’m just debating some points here, trying to get an answer and see how other think about it.

I myself see no problems as i already know how i’m going to set things up: Already since a while i’ve been working on a set of super plugins. Besides that i’m working on beautiful themes that work perfectly and look nice with my own plugins. Plugins go on Codecanyon, themes go here on TF :) a voilà, besides the fun of creating – i see business

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ChapterThemes says

—code in a plugin will be portable and easier to steal. What protects us from this misue?

What protects you from a person using a theme 20 times? What protects anyone who want to steal code from a plugin or theme?

: Nothing. Never will be since in every case they get the sourcecode.

This is always been the case even with themes without plugins.


—since its a plugin, are we responsible for the plugin working in other themes? (with the exception of shortcodes markup staying intact)

Ofcourse not. Like i said above: buyers also need to know the rules.


—if a user switches themes, some functionality wont be on the theme they switched to because all the js, css supporting it will be in our theme?

Depends, if you code your plugin correctly the plugin has it’s own js and css files. You could always define the very basics inside the plugin, and theme-styling inside the theme.


—if we are using the TGMAC, can we set the plugin to force deactivate if the user switches the theme so are plugin is only used with our theme? (with the exception of shortcodes)

You can put in a theme info check inside plugins to only work with a certain theme or you could also use a purchase key check or something. – don’t know if thats allowed btw. Waiting for response for that in an earlier question.


—So now it seems we are now becoming plugin developers and will get no compensation since the plugins we make that are specific to our theme, will now be used in other developers theme. And we will have users who buy our theme, why someone else’s theme plugin is not working in our theme.

Maybe you can see the whole thing as an opportunity to get more payed work. Buyers want a plugin from your theme to work in another theme? That’s possible, for a certain amount maybe…

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ChapterThemes says


There was another question about who’s going to offer support for the plugins that persist beyond your theme. The way I see it – and this works well with that bitfade said above -giving support for that plugin falls on your shoulders, as the client paid for what he got, BUT with a twist. After theme-switch (except cases where users switch to a theme from the same author), the author COULD or SHOULD only provide support for functionality issues, not styling issues. For styling issues it falls on to the client to support the consequences of their decisions, thus to pay either the author or a freelancer to restyle the plugin in line with their new theme.
+1. When a buyer switch themes he will stuck with, lets say a CPT plugin without the design and the data on the front-end, he/she will contact the author of a new theme about this issue. The author will answer that he is not responsible for this plugin, so the buyer will contact the author of the old theme. This author will have somehow to find a solution or the buyer will have to delete this plugin. This situation will create a mess, both for buyers and theme authors. Another solution is of course to duplicate the code, in a plugin (as a fallback) and in a theme, but it will create a situation uncomfortable when we have to update the theme, more working time and there is a big chance that fallback design in a plugin will not match the new theme design.

I disagree, this is too complicated thinking.

It’s plain and simple:

Authors are not the only people who need to work with the given rules. If a person buys a theme with one or a set of plugins for that particulair theme, the buyers knows / or needs to know, that things like design for the plugin features won’t be the same or won’t we compatible when they switch to another theme. Simple as that.

How they want to fix it is up to them. They can contact one of the authors or another person for payed or free work – that’s up to the person they contact. No big deal further.

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ChapterThemes says


But i already know that IF such option will be available one day, it would and should be irreversible: Removing item for everyone except existing buyers should be permanent
Why?

Well i figured Envato would like to keep some kind of stock control to make sure there won’t be suddenly whole disappearing pages with themes for example because everyone is working on a bug.

But i guess it depends on how every author sees it.

I know i won’t be hiding an item because of some minor bug. Specially if the item is still on page 1 till 5 or something, since you don’t want to waste those good places by hiding an item. Cuz before you know it the item is further down a few pages.

Maybe if a theme is at page 10 or 20 and it has an annoying bug i would hide the item to fix it. But not when it has good exposure.

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ChapterThemes says

@Japh

Question 1: Is it allowed to let a plugin check the current theme info and let it only work if the info matches the theme it has arrived with?

Question 2: Is it allowed to require the theme purchase code as a setting before any of the plugin features work?

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