Posts by Cocomero

122 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 1 year
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
Cocomero says

What about prices? Up or Down for EU buyers? :/

They should go up (+VAT). If they remain the same it means less money for Authors and Envato.

122 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 1 year
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
Cocomero says

Today we’re making some changes to the checkout flow in preparation for VAT collection and changes to commercial documents such as invoices. The new flow will require all buyers to enter a billing address during their next purchase, which we will securely store for subsequent purchases. You can read more about these changes on the Release Blog.

So, have you got your VAT ID finally? Could you publish this ID here?

Who is going to invoice who? Envato -> Customer?

What about prices? Are they going to change for non-business EU customers?

122 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 1 year
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
Cocomero says

One thing to note: it is not an VAT invoice.

It doesn’t fulfill the EU standards.

122 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 1 year
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
Cocomero says

^ The law will always look at what happens in reality, they’ll firstly only see a single monthly payment in your bank account, which is not typical of someone who who is directly selling to multiple customers.

This is also covered here http://themeforest.net/legal/author#how-do-payments-of-earnings-work

16.b “When we get a request for payment, we’ll pay you at the next payment cycle as stated on our Author Guide page.”

Author Guide is here: http://themeforest.net/author_guide “Withdrawals occur once a month”

As I said before. This is your optimistic point of view. I don’t know where are you from, but believe me in some countries IRS are extremely unfriendly to small business or creative individuals.

“The law will always look at what happens in reality” Exactly. And in reality they will see no VAT on their account and no proof that Envato has registered to MOSS (thry refuse to provide their VAT ID) and have collected VAT and no single word about VAT in Legal Agreement. These are facts.

122 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 1 year
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
Cocomero says


8. “Item Price (License): When you ‘sell’ an item, you’re making your item available to buyers to use that item under certain conditions”

Well to the IRS, it will be clear that Envato is directly selling and authors are indirectly selling because the word ‘sell’ in clause 8 is in apostrophes is an indication that authors are not really “selling”, it’s done on our behalf, therefore authors are indirectly selling.

Believe me. It’s your very optimistic point of view. In my country I have to provide proof that VAT has been collected and paid or they will get blind and not see any “apostrophes”.


it’s done on our behalf, therefore authors are indirectly selling.

“you authorise us to collect payments for your items” So you are directly selling. Envato is only your middleman.


Envato sets prices,

And this is very, very wrong. In Poland this could be considered as price collusion.


delivers the product,

In the same way as your hosting delivers your web page. It’s just an service which you have bought from Envato for an Author Fee.


collects payments

And again. Because you let them to “you authorise us to collect payments for your items”.


and collects VAT,

I doubt so. There is no proof they do that.


and collects buyer data, and since authors have zero control over these, Envato is the direct seller.

It’s arguable. What do you think your local IRS would do. Would they book a flight to Melbourne or just take money from your bank account?

122 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 1 year
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
Cocomero says


There are grocery stores where you can order online and get your order ID. Then you can pay online with your personal data hidden to seller and after that you can just go to this store and receive your order personally. Right?
If you order online you’re most likely going to get some sort of confirmation of order via email or perhaps a code sent as a mobile message… there is always going to be a digital paper trail to confirm the customer’s identity for purchases and delivery.

What is important to IRS is what is the agreement between you and Envato (it’s irrelevant what they wrote on the forum).

If this agreement says that you are responsible to pay taxes then you cannot avoid them (income tax and VAT as well).

If according to this agreement you are the direct seller then in most EU countries you have to register as company.

Just take a look to this document: http://themeforest.net/legal/author

8. “Item Price (License): When you ‘sell’ an item, you’re making your item available to buyers to use that item under certain conditions”

13.

“In order for us to do this, you authorise us to collect payments for your items, to credit your Envato Market account with your earnings, and to distribute your earnings to you. “

122 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 1 year
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
Cocomero says





Without any data from any buyer you simply can not be the seller.

Maybe one thing to think about for you:

If you sell something on your own website, but don’t ask your customer what’s his name, adress, etc, and take money from him, does that make you not the seller? So all you have to do is not asking this to not have any responsibility?

Just think about it ;)
If you don’t know the customers name or address.. how do you deliver the product? what if you have multiple customers, how do you keep track of who’s paid and who hasn’t.. what if there are disputes with purchases, and how do you confirm if someone is your customer to issue refunds?
If you go to grocery store and purchase bread and milk do you need to give your personal data?
No but if that grocery store was online, you need personal data to deliver the goods, or a way to identify customers if they purchase online and want to collect, otherwise how do you keep track of who’s paid? And for security reasons it’s essential to keep track of personal data, considering online fraud these days.

There are grocery stores where you can order online and get your order ID. Then you can pay online with your personal data hidden to seller and after that you can just go to this store and receive your order personally. Right?

However we sell digital goods and this makes thing even more easy. Anyway I think this discussion is going nowhere.

You just should just understand that Envato rules are unclear and this is why they are very dangerous.

There are two options:

1. Envato is seller

- they own their shop and they purchase items which they put on the shelves.

So we have two transactions -> Author to Envato and then Envato to Customer

2. Envato is not seller

- they lend some of their shelves to Authors. - Envato is cashier and provides some customer service for a small (20%) fee.

So we have three transactions here

Author to Customer, Envato to buyer ( buyer fee), Envato to Author (author fee)

This is described here: http://marketblog.envato.com/news/buyer-services/

122 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 1 year
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
Cocomero says



Without any data from any buyer you simply can not be the seller.

Maybe one thing to think about for you:

If you sell something on your own website, but don’t ask your customer what’s his name, adress, etc, and take money from him, does that make you not the seller? So all you have to do is not asking this to not have any responsibility?

Just think about it ;)
If you don’t know the customers name or address.. how do you deliver the product? what if you have multiple customers, how do you keep track of who’s paid and who hasn’t.. what if there are disputes with purchases, and how do you confirm if someone is your customer to issue refunds?

If you go to grocery store and purchase bread and milk do you need to give your personal data?

122 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 1 year
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
Cocomero says


Exactly, that doesn’t give an answer but raises other questions. As a pro with tax duties and laws to observe I need to know how my sales are managed.

Need to know if someone tells to Italy “LCweb” (that is just a name) sold X dollars, while I earned X * 70% dollars. If some Invoice with “LCweb” name is issued.

When comes to taxation rules, EU is terribly messed and authors need to have explained the complete Envato process. If truly from Jan 1st things are changed, we should be informed immediately.

EU is super easy.

1. Authors get commision: We’re NOT the seller – it’s just impossible

2. You don’t collect VAT since Envato sels the prodcut and need to worrie about collecting VAT for theirselfs in their own country: Author’s get commision, no VAT: so you do NOT pay VAT.

Man this is so simple i don’t get why people keep asking and discussing this.

This is my last time putting any effort in this thread anyway cuzz is seems like people are 1. not professional and don’t have any kind of accountant person to guide them – 2. They have a bad accountant of 3. Are just seeing things way too complicated.

Good luck with it :)

1. Have you got an official confirmation of your law interpretation? If not, then it’s just words, words, words…

2. Have you had VAT or income tax audit done by your local IRS and have you got an confirmation that everything is as simple as you say?

3. Where are you from? Don’t you understand that tax law can differ from EU country to EU country? It can be simple in UK which is pretty friendly to small business, while it can be considered as fraud in countries not so friendly to small business such as Poland, Italy, Greece or Germany.

122 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 1 year
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
Cocomero says

Well, my “Invoices” tab under “http://themeforest.net/financial_document/invoices” is empty.

There should be all information that belong on a proper invoice on it: - invoice number - company details of both parties - commission details - etc.

Maybe the invoice requirements in Germany are really detailed, and you guys don’t need all of this, but my accountant encourages me to get those information. I can’t imagine other countries don’t bother about business invoices at all.

Believe me that we have a lot of troubles with this topic in Poland too. I think that in most EU countries bureaucracy is on similar level.

See other topics about VAT etc. and how Envato ignores questions. Personally I think that this is why they don’t care:

http://themeforest.net/legal/market#housekeeping

“Our indemnity to you” 42 to 54.

Personally I think that this agreement is extremely dangerous.

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