I think you should add that the support outlined will only be provided for as long as the theme is on sale on Themeforest. Otherwise you will potentially get a lot of extra headaches when authors delete their themes or simply leave the marketplace.
In other words, I would also remove the “6 months / 12 months for a fee” idea too. It is a terrible idea and i predict a huge wave of problems coming from it for everyone involved. It’s not worth the tiny increment in revenue.
Can you please tell me what buyers will see on items by authors who opt out but still provide support on their own terms? Will they see that PDF in the same places?
Because unfortunately, it is clear to me that you are hellbent on implementing this proposed system, therefore, as it all stands, I plan to opt out. But I will continue providing great free support on my own terms, which is: For as long as the theme is sold on Themeforest, I will do my best to fix confirmed bugs and be helpful wherever possible/realistic.
Whoa, that is shocking! They look completely different to me.
Does that mean that if you sold the new theme on a competing marketplace, you’d get in trouble for “Breaking author exclusivity agreement”?
You should really try to get more in-depth feedback though!
It’s extremely disappointing the entire conversation here was pretty much for nothing in terms of the proposal.
@Stewboon, can you please explain/show how exactly this will all look like in the future? How will the visuals show if an author has opted in/out to your support on the theme description page?
From what I have read/seen so far, I will most likely opt out of your proposal, but will continue to offer support on my own terms, which is basically: For as long as the theme is sold on Themeforest, I will do my best to fix confirmed bugs and be helpful wherever possible/realistic for confirmed buyers. With all your data and analysis, what impact do you foresee for authors who want to do it this way?
Even though outside stats are unreliable, Google did update their algorithm to Panda 4.1 in September, so there could be something to those graphs!
Wow, this conversation has really gone off track here. Envato, please get involved in this conversation, it’s really frustrating that you propose/state things and then disappear for weeks/months with no official answer and let authors/buyers to speculate and talk for pages and pages.
And I think this discussion you guys are having should stop with this:
It’s really simple, this is a STOCK marketplace, that means you buy a license to use a product and as such it comes as-is. The product will clearly state it works on X and X versions of WordPress/WooCommerce/etc before you purchase, so there is no confusion as to what you’re getting. And the rules are simple and obvious:
- If the product doesn’t work on those versions, you can contact the author to tell him/her about the bug and the author has to fix it, otherwise the product is reported to Envato and then soft-disabled until fixed.
- If you are having problems setting up the theme like in the demo, then look at the documentation. If it doesn’t explain it there, then contact the author and he/she can answer if they want to (99% of authors will).
- Any author who promotes “lifetime updates/support” is breaking the rules and they should be reported to Envato and they will deal with it. Besides, lifetime support on such a cheap product makes literally no sense on a stock marketplace.
Stop trying to distort the rules to your own benefit (everyone seems to be doing this here).
And I will say it one last time, opt in/out support for themes + “paid” extra support are awful, awful ideas, because it goes against the core principle of a stock marketplace.
I would never have signed up if this were in place, and I will consider my future once any changes about this are implemented.
If I wanted to sell my time to other people (buyers), I would be looking for real clients who will pay me what my support time actually costs, not a ridiculous $20 (or whatever it costs) for 1 year.
Envato, please come to your senses, you are overstepping your bounds with this and you are clearly going to annoy a big percentage of your authors/buyers.
You are putting it a bit out of context. Please refer to my comments on the previous page. Thanks!
Hi, I was mostly responding to this:
What I do not want, is that small amount of people who does not provide the support (or do it badly) will dictate their rules and equalize everyone else. I repeat this same thing over and over again. And, yes, I do not have much respect to such people, though it may not be very nice from me.
I have almost 6000 sales, I have had also almost received 6000 tickets + comments and answered every single one of them (fixing all reported bugs on the way, and forwarded customization requests to Envato Studio). I give amazing free support at my own pace and on my own terms (there’s a reason my author rating is high), yet I am strongly against this proposal as I believe it to be wrong. Envato are overstepping their boundaries in this Envato -> Author relationship and it’s unfortunate that experienced authors like you are just accepting it, even when you yourself say “support packages are a bad idea”.
If Envato are really that concerned about this and really want to make “authors and buyers lives easier”, all they need to do is make the current support terms more clear to buyers. Not this “6 months/12 months/support packages” rubbish.
@Stewboon, with all your answers, it is painfully obvious to me that your proposal has not changed since the first proposal (apart from the 3 day rule), as the opt in/out is 100% an illusion and it is extremely frustrating that some authors are unable to see what’s going to happen.
Can you please answer me this though: Why are Envato so hellbent on making these changes? Why are you not listening to the majority of authors about it? It is pretty clear that our biggest problem is that you are monetizing the wrong thing (our time), instead of the correct one (access to updates). “Support packages” are a terrible idea, it should be paid “access to updates”.
And please stop trying to overcomplicate it “minor/major” updates argument, it’s very simple: Buyer has access to download the theme for 6 months, once that is up, the buyer can then decide whether to pay again for another 6 months of access, and of course at that point the buyer checks the update log of the theme to see if they are interested in getting the new update (if there is one), if they are, then they pay for another 6 months, which would be cheaper than the original fee of course. You could then offer a 12 month access discounted price, so that’d be cheaper than renewing later. that will make buyers actually consider getting 12 months access from the start price. That is a much better solution if you really want to increase revenue from somewhere new.
Updates are the thing that I can’t imagine a single author arguing against.
Astoundify wrote an excellent comment about how they tried to charge for extra support, and that buyers weren’t interested. And how they also believe updates are the right thing to monetize.
@Dream-theme, It is very arrogant to call people arguing against this proposal as “naysayers”, if you disagree with people, then write a response to their argument explaining why you think they are wrong, don’t keep saying “i don’t understand people against this”, as that is offensive and not constructive in the slightest.
I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t think it’s correct to blame authors at all in this, or want a refund because an author decided to remove a theme from the marketplace (which is of course a right authors should/need to have).
The solution is for Envato to still allow you to download the files in your Downloads section, regardless if the theme is still being sold on here or not. And mention near the download button “this theme is no longer sold here”.
Adding this to user agreement won’t change anything. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
It changes A LOT. Envato themselves admitted that for the 30% they’d market the items and the whole support idea. This + selling on the same price changes everything because now everyone is aligned. When you start promoting the “opt-in” items which sell for the same price, you’re robbing buyers of a choice. Marketing 101. It won’t really matter that opt-out authors will most surely support their items still, for good business practice. The new model is and will be pushed prominently enough. Have no doubt about that.In the end this new version is just a tricky way to get all authors in time under the opt-in umbrella. Envato noticed the original version made too much of a wave so they just changed the strategy a bit making authors want to join in time, not because of the huge extra income it provides, but to escape the no-sales-land that they’ll find themselves in later.
Very well said, this is what I meant in my previous comment here by “the opt in/out option is an illusion”, because the marketplace/market will force all authors to be “opt in”.
Most buyers are nice and understanding people, and authors relationship with them will continue to be the same, it’s the other types of buyers, the minority of rude ones with a sense of entitlement of our time who will be empowered by this new system and especially if they pay “extra” for “support”. They will only get worse, and this new system will potentially encourage more buyers to feel and be that way too.
And in case you didn’t read before, Stewboon said we have to “honour” any 12 month support purchases, so if you want to delete an item or leave the market, you will be breaking the “rules/agreement” if you don’t offer support for another 12 months to those buyers. And what does that mean? It kind of means you still have to update the theme to work with WordPress X and send it to those buyers, even if the theme isn’t available for sale any more.