@MVPThemes, attention, I wasn’t talking down the competition, I was remarking on two experienced some friends went through, unpleasant ones. Friends that are also experienced authors. Don’t take it the wrong way.
Regarding the reviewers, I think even if I bring you a decree showing that reviewers are actually up to date with standards, you still wouldn’t believe me, so I’m just going to stop explaining this over and over again!
Indeed, you have some constructive criticism that I and I believe everyone else does appreciate!
Here’s a perfect example of an assumption that the reviewers are staying up on their craft without any actual checks and balances. Not to say that they’re not, but how do we know? Why do authors need checks and balances to make sure they’re staying on top of their game, but for the reviewers, we’re just supposed to take your word for it? That’s a horrible double standard.
I’m trying, really hard to see the logic in this. If reviewers don’t know what the standards are… then how do items get rejected for not being up to standards? Or code? Or anything for that matter. I’m checking items as they get released, I see one that’s just beautiful, then a few days later I see bits and pieces of the code of that item freshly explained online. If the reviewer had no idea about that item, how did he approve it? Don’t take my word for it, you don’t have to! Look at the authors that sell millions and millions of dollars. Further more, a solid example, from my mobile niche! It’s interesting when I test a new idea of code I have that I haven’t seen online and a reviewer can reject my product because of a bug I wasn’t even aware of. Did the reviewer see that in magical unicorn that appeared in my item? I doubt that! As I said, I won’t give examples, but I know reviewers are very up to date with standards! And as far as I see from rejections on the forums, they are very up to date with standards.
Right now, there are competitors that don’t have a review process at all, and while that may not end up benefiting them in the long term, it might just turn out to be a better business model. While there may be other marketplaces that pop up that create better-functioning review processes with better check and balances, which would leave Envato trailing to catch up.
Yeah, the competition is absolutely great. I’ve had a friend upload an item there. It turned out amazingly sour for him. Not getting into to many details, but I’d rather get rejected 5 times here than get countless sale reversals and disputes and what not there. And this happened on two competing marketplaces. Envato’s review system works. That’s proven by the sheer amount of users, products, new items, and top sellers constantly appearing.
I am not defending anyone at the top, I’m defending the reviewers for the simple fact that they are doing an amazing job, simply amazing! They keep up with standards, they work around the clock, they helped me and countless other people improve their work, and they deserve to be treated with respect. The process needs some improvements here and there as mentioned in countless threads, but that shouldn’t be a reason to disrespect reviewers.
I certainly want to see Envato succeed as much as anyone here, but what I’ve seen lately in the past few months is concerning with regard to the company’s future and their ability to sustain growth and ward off competitors.
Just so you know, moderators do this job as volunteers, and I don’t take freelance jobs anymore, so that means I’m a full time author here. Do you honestly believe I would’ve opened this thread just to troll or attack my fellow authors? I just want this community to be civil, as it always was, where constructive criticism released amazing items and launched amazing authors! There’s way too much free floating hostility around reviewers and the review process, and what I fail to see, is why isn’t anyone opening a thread to thank the review team, or better yet, open a thread that’s exclusively dedicated to improving the review process, where issues like these can be explained in a civil constructive fashion, not just by bashing left and right… see my point?
I must add this, since there are authors who misinterpret my writing, I’m not angry / enraged or anything of that sort, I’m writing these arguments as friendly as I can and talking to you guys from author to author, so please don’t misinterpret my post as being some rant! Cheers!
Actually…he has to. He is a forum moderator. Rant or not….he has to read them
I don’t have to mate, I love to! I love this community, and it really bothers me to see hate flying around … that’s why I opened this thread, as an author, not a moderator!
Well, 9 out of the top 10 most popular WordPress items are multi-purpose themes, so I think that’s what most buyers are looking for which translates to reviewers approving more of these as long as they have something slightly more unique compared the other 1,559 multi-purpose themes.
I do think the reviewers are doing a great job checking everything but I do not agree with the way they disable an item. I have not had my item disabled by them, but if it is a minor CSS bug which can be solved in minutes (reviewers can definitely judge how difficult it is to solve a problem), I don’t think they should disable that item. It just causes more harm to both authors and buyers when it takes another few days to review the updated item.I think authors should be notified of a small problem and given a grace period to solve it unless it’s a critical bug which will compromise the safety of the website or make the website not usable at all. After all, if hundreds of buyers never realize a small styling glitch but one buyer found it and reported it, and Envato reacted by soft-disabling the item immediately without notice, I think that’s an overreaction to a trivial matter.
This is actually a good idea and it has been posted in this thread before. I’ll make sure to pass this forward, but I’m pretty sure staff are monitoring this thread as well. So yourpolite and constructive criticism is really appreciated!
@WebSmacker, thank you for your insight! Great to see your code improved!
@MVPThemes I’m going to blockquote sections of your reply, and give my 2 cents on them.
The truth is that reviewers, very often, approve items that literally don’t sell at all, and a great number of items that sell very little.
This is a matter of diversity. If an item meets standards, it doesn’t necessarily mean it will sell on it’s niche. It depends on the buyers tastes. Some may sell more, others less. Compare top selling items with new items that don’t sell, and sometimes you’ll just look in disbelief.
We’re not doing anyone any favors by automatically accepting items, but we’re also not doing anyone any favors by assuming the reviewers don’t also need to improve their process. Where are their checks and balances?
Reviewers always have to evolve their technique to the latest and newest styles out there. I won’t name anyone, but I can guarantee they do hard work to research and stay up to date with standards. Indeed, the review process itself could use improvements, but reviewers are always up to date with code. The example @WebSmacker gave is perfect. Reviewers know what functions are deprecated and which are not. That’s called research! ( And don’t tell me it’s the Google Chrome Inspection Tool, that isn’t up to date with all functions and codes )
So much emphasis is placed on the authors role in the review process, while no one is actually asking whether or not the reviewers are actually doing their jobs. I’m not even saying they’re not doing their jobs necessarily, but I just don’t understand the automatic assumption that they have the perfect understanding of what will sell on the marketplace and if your item was rejected, that automatically means it will not sell well.
If your item is rejected it doesn’t mean the reviewer decided it will not sell, it means the reviewer decided certain parts of it must be improved. The fact that older files that are out of date with current standards still sell is living proof that your argument is quite invalid. As I said above, some items here are built AMAZINGLY well but they are already brand made, and that cuts their sales to a very low number, but that doesn’t mean the item should’ve been rejected. It meets the standards, it just doesn’t have such a large clientele basis.
I think no one ever talks about the reviewers because they’re like the police of the marketplace. They’re the gatekeepers, and you musn’t upset the gatekeepers. I just don’t think they’re exempt from scrutiny, especially when so many items they approve don’t do well at all.
This is again false. I’ve had items rejected where there reviewers reason was valid. We discussed through support, and determined that my code was properly built for the cause it was needed. The file got approved. I didn’t open a forum thread and I didn’t call the reviewers names, but I respectfully disagreed with their opinion, stated my arguments, which were 100% valid, and the item was approved.
You are self imposing a fear into yourself for no reason. The reviewer will not cut off your head if your item isn’t up to standards, nor will they kill you. And again. Items are category based. Some categories do better than others. Let me give you an example. If I design a theme that has 10 billion features, and is the easiest and sexiest design you’ve seen, but it’s branded/labeled for brick sellers. Who is gonna buy that? Get my point?
I’m not trying to bash the reviewers, but unless the person is literally calling the reviewers names, let’s try to stay away from bashing the authors. If authors can be criticized for trying to submit work that’s not up to par, then reviewers should be able to be criticized for accepting work that doesn’t sell. It goes both ways.
Of course it does. But at the same time, another thing I wanted to add about items that don’t sell so well. Searching for multi purpose just got me 1,559 Templates & Themes, and I have a feeling tomorrow, there will be at least 10 more. You have to understand that some categories sell, some don’t, and SOME are over saturated with the same designs and styles. Buyers complain about this all the time. It has 2 wheels and a seat, it’s called a bike, it has 2 wheels a seat and a horn, it’s still a damn bike! So goes with items. When there is a tone of products to choose from, some items will light up on fire due to the authors great marketing skills, some files will just not sell.
Indeed it does go both ways, but please look at this from all aspects.
The last part of your message I already commented upon above!
I feel the same, reviewers have helped me improve a lot. They’ve always given me good feedback when I needed it.
Maybe the dudes who are angry about their rejections can go and create their own marketplace, they could call it TurdCreek.
Thanks for your insight and joke! I laughed out loud at that one!
I only make music, but I’ve had some very nice comments from reviewers that loved the music I uploaded. And the songs I’ve had rejected, when I listen again it’s easy to see why. Soft rejections have helped me a lot, so I kinda like being judged by professionals instead of being on a website full of crap that no one wants.
Thank you for your insight! Much appreciated sir!
Sorry but I think you either haven’t read that posts completely or are just tyring to justify what you wrote. If you check the thread there, you’ll see many authors stating that it sometimes gets disabled for ordinary css issues, I’m not talking about critical bugs here, if it’s indeed a critical bug which may do a big harm – be my guest, I’ll only be thankful for disabling it right away, to stop any further harm. Another thing is if a good selling item gets disabled for some minor bug and the author loses lots of money. So, what about this? I don’t see the answer anywhere mentioned in your post.
I do agree with Travis regarding that issue, and I do agree the system does need improvements for minor bug solving, but at the same time, I’m not trying to anger you, seriously, I see your problem, but you have to remember your an author here, and having items with bugs, on sale will only cause you more harm than good in the end!
I understand that small bugs can be annoying to get disabled for, but at the same time, you must also understand this fact. A buyer paid full value for an item that has a bug. Okay, it’s a little bit extreme to disable that item if it’s a simple and I say this again SIMPLE, CSS bug, but in cases where the design of the item may broken or may suffer, disabling will get the authors attention and he will fix it asap. Remember, you’re selling a product that is broken, a small bug or not, it’s still broken and needs to be fixed. How that is handled depending on the seriousness of the issue, I do agree with you and with Travis upon!