sniperatic saidAlmost happened to me twice Ironically, when I was updating the description field, for an unknown reason I always thought that there should be the place for the “Update” button so I wanted to click it
Haha still can’t believe people hit that by accident.
Haha same here. Probably because the wordpress post edit screen is laid out that way
+1. Would have needed this multiple times already
gljivec saidYup very wrong… a good example is the PSD category.. Collis (Envato CEO) created one of the first PSD templates in 2008 (2 pages).... it is currently the highest selling PSD file and quite often it appears on the popular page under PSD category to this day… Is his file even close to the level or even as up to date as newer files? – not by a long shot… it only sells purely based on high sales.
Dream-Theme saidI think this is absolutely wrong. For older items numbers of sales are the major factor.
Number of sales is very important but not the exceptional key factor.
To my mind you are making an argument against yourself with this. If people would really ignore the quality of an item and just sheepishly buy the oldest or the ones with the most sales Collis PSD file would ALWAYS be in the popular psd list. It only takes 3 freaking sales to get there. Also why do other top-all-time-psd-files like smasher or boxit don’t shop up?
Don’t get me wrong, its for sure happening that some people do buy that way, but I think if an item is outdated its conversion rate will drop to almost zero. I also think the aforementioned explanation with that item being the part of a popular psd tuts article is far more likely than yours.
But the problem in either case is that a sample size that low (3 sales necessary) on a market that big wont let you draw any viable conclusions, therefore I don’t even try. Heck, Envato could probably push any psd file into that list with a single tweet, so I really consider any argumentation using the psd file section as a measurement for the whole site as useless
Since you always put so much focus on “the fact” that old items are so destroying new ones in terms of visibility, that new ones stand no chance and that in the future only old stuff will be sold because its getting worse and worse: I did a check of whats currently in the popular file section: there are a staggering 6! items that I would consider old (not created in 2013) out of 55! And far more than half of that remaining 49 items were created within less than 5-6 months.
The few old files doing well are the exception to the rule, not the rule. And most of them are already losing ground to the newer themes…
And even if we take a look back at “better times”: One year ago it was the same picture: 7 items older than a year. And the same before that year.
If you ask me the marketplace is working (mostly) fine. Fix the search, fix the frontpage exposure, fix all that you wan’t but please don’t blame the marketplace for people not getting sales. If they produce an item that appeals to the audience, it will sell. If they don’t no ‘marketplace fix’ will change that.
Ratings now they are neither invaluable nor a true reflection of anything. In any case, not more than a simply and fair “like” based system. If it works for the billion users Facebook has, and works on Instagram, Foursquare, would work here too and would be just as valid.
Likes are a very bad way to rate a product since they will always favor older products which had more time to get more likes (unless you implement a complicated solution with items losing likes over time). Likes are nice to push someones ego on facebook or instagram but thats about it…
In general I agree with the latest post from DS, especially the sales/comments part. I am neutral on removing the front page items. I can see that authors want them but it will probably soon be similar to audiojungle which in turn will cause more complaining…
@Kriesi, comparing iStock, Google Play Store, Apple App store and analyzing with Pareto Principle are wrong way to justify the sales related complaints here.(May be iStock – PhotoDune comparisons can be slightly sensible) The root cause of complaints are not just on sales / profit but deficiencies on navigation and features. The buyers also complains. Sales related complaints starts after observing a deficiency/inconsistency in navigation. When there is no significant improvements made for more than 4-5 years on exposure channels, Pareto Principle doesn’t going to justify the apparent /suspected loses on profit.
DS says that the profits from a few here are unheard of on any marketplace, I just provide the numbers and show that this is not true and that Themeforest is actually a nice place to sell.
Also I think you give people to much credit ;D I would argue that most complaints start because authors are not happy with their sales and then try to find a reason why this is the case. Or do you really think that if the thread creators latest item would have sold 100 times on the two days of the frontpage he would have opened this thread? ;D
Don’t say its a bad thing that he did, the concerns are real and the discussion + the suggested solutions certainly are a good thing. I just think it wouldn’t have happened if he would be happy with his sales
And yes. I have also been there and done that. I think its just human
I’ve seen a new theme that released today and it sells about 20 in the weekend and just in a few hours. So if a theme is good enough, it will sell more and more.
I was 4 weeks on the homepage as featured item but I was not able to sell more than 50 items per week. This doesn’t mean that there is a problem with the marketplace, probably I was not good enough to sell more…
I think this is the best way to look at your own items and its also the approach I use and it has served me well. But to be honest, what you already know after one upload, I only learned after months on being on the marketplace, and it caused a lot of frustration for me in the beginning.
Yes there are some flaws in the current system, discussing them is good and improvements on the marketplace are also good, but in the end it always comes down to the piece of work you are trying to sell
But you have to know that as it was already mentioned we pay 30% commission for the exposure and the marketing aspect of the site so when it happens that you don’t have this exposure or it devalues you kind of should’t pay for the service.
Thats exactly how it is already. If you don’t sell your item you dont pay the 30%. Envato doesnt take your money upfront or something
In other economic system you have progressive tax so more you make more you pay taxes or in this case commission here it’s different you get bigger you pay less and get more and more.
And its a smart move that it is like that. Otherwise every single elite author would open his own site or switch marketplace, because at some point it wouldn’t make sense any more to stay here. Pretty similar to rich individuals moving their homes to tax havens. Just easier in our case
But never the less respect to those 20% we all want in there and if reality if we were there we would all be on your side probably or just be quiet
Actually you are already within the top 15% of authors here, so kudos for that
The facts are – most authors complain that it’s becoming harder and harder to sell items here, yet there are a handful achieving exponential success – unheard of turn over compared to any other marketplace on the internet.
How is that a fact? I would say almost the entire opposite is a fact: In most marketplaces a very tiny amount of people make the majority of money. Its not even limited to digital marketplaces, this is a global phenomenon. It even has a name!
Its called the Pareto Principle or the 80/20 rule
On Istockphoto only 0,2% of the photographers earn 25% of the money. App stores are even worse:
At the beginning of the year, revenues from the apple app store and the google play store were examined and the result: 50% of the income is generated by 25 developers. (not even 25%, just 25 developers from among 275,000 of just the apple app store! Thats roughly 0,01% )
I made a rough estimation based on themeforest all time sales and the distribution ratio is A LOT better here. Even the top 50 Authors (1,7% of authors) combined do not crack the 50% mark of sales, which is hundred times better than the app store ratio and multiple times better than istock.
So please stop telling people how broken themeforest is when its in fact much fairer than most other digital marketplaces. It wont help anyone. It will only induce further complain-threads when the proposed changes do not show any significant impact on their earnings.
I wholeheartedly agree with those proposed changes: that front page exposure should be distributed equally, that the search needs to improve, that the popular items list should be updated once per day etc. But as authors we should mention those problems and then try to push our own product instead of complaining constantly and waiting that some new search algorithm will fix our business.
Because taking a look at other marketplaces will tell you: it wont happen
imangm saidWhat?! Where did you come with this from? My point was not about exposure but about your questions regarding referrals. There are a lot of users who have their own sites and try to make money from the referral system, this has absolutely nothing to do with Envato. I was just teaching you how to steal their referrals nothing more
RubenBristian saidAnd actually Envato is paying for this by paying 30% for the referral cuts to these sites.
usually when you release a new item it will get picked up by a lot of dudes with their own WP review sites, etc.
What he is probably trying to say is that without us paying 30% to envato there would be no way envato could afford the ref program and there would be no ref sites linking to themeforest
In the end I really dont’t think that anyone can claim that envato does a bad marketing job. The network has 3.1 Million members and is growing every day. You can just do what Ruben does (no marketing at all, on any channel) and still sell items worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Better 70% of that than 30% of nothing ;D
Probably the smartest solution in the long run. But I can already see the threads with people complaining. This is not going to be an easy change
If you look at other marketplaces with high volumes of items accepted: No one has a better solution. They either have no new item section on the front at all (istockphoto and other photo marketplaces) or a curated version like the app stores. Other then splitting themeforest and separating wordpress from the rest to keep it intentionally “small” I dont see how this could be changed. (And I don’t think that this would be a smart solution either)
That’s easy – we can live with average numbers based on current speed of queue. The staff knows how many items approved in the recent week and month. Take those number as a hint and display only that many items per day (not necessarily per day but if the average is high, it can be split into 12 hours). This won’t stagnate items and if it looks like approvals getting more than previous average, just adjust the number. All these can be automated too – so the consistency of intervals will be fair even without reviewer’s decisions.
We can’t compare photo marketplaces with theme ones. Also iStock takes care the exposure through sophisticated search. None of us here talks about initial exposure issues of lightning fast moving PhotoDune queueWe have solution at least to make each item to have equal exposure. It is more to do with staff’s interest on solving this – rather than technical issues. For an average developer, writing code for this shouldn’t take more than a day. Due to complexity of these marketplaces, we may assume it as around a week’s job on testing – nothing more than that.
Yes if you want to give every author the same exposure on the front page that would certainly work and its a viable short term solution
But in the end thats not what people want. In general they simply want more front page time, yet if this marketplace grows even more, it might be that even if you distribute the amount of time equally, you might only get a few hours or even less in the future. And there is no way around that, but to stop growing. So what I say is: everyone should get accustomed to the fact that in the long run, the front page will not help new files