Posts by MVPThemes

301 posts
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Had an item featured on Envato Market
+7 more
MVPThemes
says

Envato has been policing and banning anyone who buys their own items for years now. So let’s not imply they’ll now look the other with bulk orders, anyone who breaks the rules will get banned.

They have been policing the known offenders. You and I both know that people do it anyway.

And now that there is added incentive for authors to do it with these bulk purchases, combined with the fact that authors are making more money now than ever and it will continue to grow, if Envato doesn’t adjust their policies past the “don’t buy your own items” in the TOS, then it’s only going to get worse.

I trust Envato as much as I can, but I’m not blind enough to think that they will do everything in their power to prevent fraud, even though they would benefit from it financially either way. And especially since “everything in their power” should involve removing bulk sales from the top files list, but that is not being done. The only thing that’s being done at the moment is silencing any opposition, which doesn’t look good.

301 posts
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Had an item featured on Envato Market
+7 more
MVPThemes
says

And yet again, my posts are being removed even though I’m not accusing or insinuating anyone of any wrongdoing.

I’ll try this again:

I think most of the resistance to removing bulk sales from the top files list comes from a place of “that would never happen here” and mostly because there’s this sense that Envato would never allow it to happen….even though they directly benefit from allowing it to happen, which only increases the chances of it actually happening here.

So, rather than just resolve the issue altogether (as best we can) by removing bulk sales from the top files list, people are actually advocating that we leave the policing of this situation in the hands of the very entity that stands to profit from every bulk sale?

Again, this discussion has nothing to do with any previous transactions. It is a discussion about the potential for issues in the future, so there is no reason to delete posts like this.

301 posts
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Had an item featured on Envato Market
+7 more
MVPThemes
says

Buying your way to the top of the bookseller list is different, there is huge marketing appeal from it, it would be in every newspaper, bookshop and in magazines, there is a benefit to doing it. On Envato the benefits are much smaller as it’s a closed shop business, there is not national press coverage, no tv interviews etc. Look at the sales stats, so far it’s not been financially viable for the author to do it, there hasn’t been a pickup in sales to make it worth the effort. If it has happened then there is not a lot you can do about it is there as it’s happened, and if it has Envato would be kicking backsides so it doesn’t happen again.

This is an extremely short-sighted way of looking at things, as if all of the top theme authors will always have the income they do now and it won’t become even more financially viable to shell out the money for the top spot a we continue to grow.

Regardless of that, there are ways to minimize your financial risk in buying your own themes to the point where you’re not actually spending any money. It has been mentioned here, but those posts were deleted.

Bottom line is that there are no arguments for it not being financially viable, even now. There are ways of minimizing all risks involved and people will take those risks, especially the more money authors begin to make on here. It’s up to Envato to discourage it. And right now, there doesn’t seem to be any interest in doing so, since they stand to profit from all of it.

301 posts
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Had an item featured on Envato Market
+7 more
MVPThemes
says

the industries have a “partner” who do all the counting / leaderboards (e.g. billboard chart).

Envato run their own, Envato are a business, Envato are going to publish the bulk sales as it makes the items look better, also works in their marketing, More sales = more exposure for Envato.

I swear some people forget the fact Envato are a private company and they have to look after their own interests, hiding the fact someone has spent $100k on themes would be suicide, it’s a great way to go “Hey, this company trusts us to build their sites”.

If someone wants to buy the top spot, let them as they will quickly get banned and lose everything, Envato aren’t stupid, they will spot the trick a mile off and kick the author to the kerb.

Yes, the other industries have an unbiased third party to run their lists, which is more to my point that given that the top list is Envato’s, that’s a bit of a conflict of interest. Given that it’s in their best interest to inflate the numbers, but that they’re also in charge of making sure that the numbers are pure and unperverted. You can’t do both, especially when a ton of money is on the line.

I don’t expect Envato to be anything but a business. But that doesn’t mean we should just accept that Envato should do nothing to combat fraud and just always look out for their bottom line and that’s it.

This is a very simple issue. Removing bulk sales from the top files list would discourage the practice of buying your way to the top. It may not get rid of it altogether, but it would certainly make it harder. The only downside to this would be that bulk sales simply would not show up for the week that the bulk sale occurred. In other words, that one author would not get to advertise that they were the #1 in sales for the week. That’s literally the only downside.

The upside is that you don’t encourage the activity and the top files list is able to stay organic.

But to Envato, that is actually a downside, because I believe they actually want to encourage bulk sales (legitimate or no) since they benefit either way, at least in the short term. In the long run, they may not benefit because the top files list will become perverted and less meaningful, which could spill over onto any files that are sold here being less meaningful given the bloated sales figures that customers can no longer rely on.

301 posts
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Had an item featured on Envato Market
+7 more
MVPThemes
says

haha a few say it has nothing to do with the other topic but keep bringing up the same regurgitated messages…. I agree with everything DS has said,

If someone was to try and buy their way to the top, it would not be financially viable, they would get an extra couple of sales from being #1 but it wouldn’t create enough to make their “investment” worth it. To do it properly they would have to do it over many weeks and by then Envato would have become suspicious and could end up removing them from the site.

Everything is pure speculation, a few say there was an attempt at rigging the system but others believe it was pure coincedence a couple of bulk sales matured at the same time. We will never be privvy to the details between the authors and the buyers, and Envato and the buyers so you will never know if it was 100% legit deals or there were some “tampering” in regards to spreading the deals out.

Using the new sale tracked app, you can see theme 1 has out-sold theme 2 every day except the bulk day, this shows that buyers are buying the theme they like rather than the one up the top, without going back a few weeks and checking sales, 2 probably has had an increase in sales due to the new position but it doesn’t look enough to be able to say that it’s enough to keep them there. Now if they had paid to put their item at the top then in my view it has been pointless as they haven’t succeeded in the quest, they may be #1 but their sales haven’t increased to reflect that position.

I personally wouldn’t waste thousands of dollars on my own items if I didn’t think I would see a return on my invest, a return is a profit which outweighs the cost and risk of doing the “job”. Unless someone is completely brainless or just has too much money, they wouldn’t try and game the system as the disadvantages far outweight the gains.

I’ll say this again until one of you that are still defending this answers: Are you saying it’s not financially viable for book publishers to buy their way onto the NYT Bestseller list? That the sticker saying they’re a NYT Bestseller means nothing to consumers and the book’s sales even after they are no longer at the top of the NYT Bestseller list?

Your theories of it not being financially viable have already been disproven by other similar industries. It happens, and will happen here if we don’t discourage it by not including bulk purchases on the top files list.

301 posts
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Had an item featured on Envato Market
+7 more
MVPThemes
says

Well it’s just my opinion, I have had files at number 1 for the week many times on AD – so speaking from experience I know the top spot is beneficial to exposure, but I also know it doesn’t make it easier to stay there, you still have to work hard to stay ahead. You have to build a real following with a good product, you can’t artificially buy your way there and expect to stay there. In the end it’s about what you’re selling, not your sales number.

You’re missing the point. No one is saying anyone with deep pockets can just buy their way and benefit from being #1. But, if you’re already in the top 10 or even top 20, it might become very financially viable to pony up the extra money to get in that top spot. And as we grow and the top 10 authors are all making millions from their themes, it will become even easier and more financially viable to do this. It’s exactly why it happens in other industries….and why those industries don’t count bulk sales on their top lists.

301 posts
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Had an item featured on Envato Market
+7 more
MVPThemes
says

I’m not sure why some think buying their way to the top is actually going to be beneficial – it won’t create sustainable sales, only a temporary exposure boost. As we have seen with legit bulk orders, it does not have a lasting effect, the gains from exposure would be small compared to the 30% – 50% loss if someone was actually buying their own items. The only way it could possibly work is, if you have a huge amount of starting capital, and a lot of time to spread out each order. But before you even see any real sustainable gains, either you’re going to be broke, or it will be painfully obvious you’re gaming the system that you’ll get banned. So it would be a really stupid move to even attempt to buying your way to the top. The only way to the top and to stay there is with real sales from real customers.

Once again, this is a practice that happens in other industries. Are you saying that book publishers don’t benefit from buying their way to the top of the NYT Bestseller list?

301 posts
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Had an item featured on Envato Market
+7 more
MVPThemes
says


There is a possibility but is it worth the risk, since there will be “quick consequences” if found breaking the rules – sure authors might get greedy and try buy their way to the top but it will be at their own peril, plus all their competitors will be watching closely.
Except when the member’s notice something suspicious, they will speak up and then get shunned for not having any proof, have their messages hidden/deleted etc for calling out other members, and then we end up back where we started. It just won’t pan out as you have described. The reason we’re in this thread right now is BECAUSE the members were watching and BECAUSE they said something. It didn’t work. We’re not allowed to be self-vigilant .

+1

301 posts
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Had an item featured on Envato Market
+7 more
MVPThemes
says

There is a possibility but is it worth the risk, since there will be “quick consequences” if found breaking the rules – sure authors might get greedy and try buy their way to the top but it will be at their own peril, plus all their competitors will be watching closely.

When there are millions of dollars at stake and little to no chance of being caught, yes, people will certainly take the low-risk/high-reward gamble. If you think otherwise, you’re being naive.

And remember that Envato is actually profiting from every one of these transactions, so it’s not as if they don’t have anything to gain (short-term, at least) by letting these transactions slip through. It’s a pretty big conflict of interest.

It happens in other industries for a reason. I don’t understand the defense of this.

301 posts
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Had an item featured on Envato Market
+7 more
MVPThemes
says

I think it’s healthy for the marketplace, because being top for the week isn’t as secured as it was before using the usual methods such as paying for advertising, where who ever has the biggest budget can dominate – this was leading things open to monopolization. Now there is a new avenue, where you have to put on your business suit and think like a corporate to make those big deals. So this will help shake things up at the top, so no one gets too comfortable – and will also help cycle themes in the top list more frequently – this will give more authors a time to shine at the top spot.

You’re still ignoring any possibility of corruption. And assuming Envato can catch every instance of it is naive. Much larger industries are unable to catch it, but what they ARE able to do is adjust their policies so as not to encourage it in the first place.

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