Posts by UBLThemes

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UBLThemes says


By the way, if the authors are selling directly, as stated by Collis, Envato staff members and Envato ToS, then wouldn’t an author from the USA, for example, have to pay sales tax for purchases made by customers coming from the same state as the author?!

Yes. It is the same for Canada. And Australia (it is called GST there). And probably many other countries.

It is not like only european authors are affected by this.

Actually if Envato have already taxed it which I think they do according to the invoices then you dont tax it again.

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UBLThemes says


According to my local tax office, as long as they state in their terms and conditions that we are the direct seller, and we continue to use this site, which means that we accept this then we are liable because we accept that we are the direct seller because we are still using their site.

I’m not agree with your reasoning. I guess that “Terms and conditions” is not an unilateral contract. If you agree to be a seller, then they should comply with the above conditions and should allow you to be a seller for real.

If terms says that you are the seller but the facts say otherwise, you can’t be liable as seller. In any way. Accepting the terms just means that you agree with it. Not that what it says is true.

No you are wrong, a terms of use contract is a legal contract and will hold up in court. If you accept their terms of use then you agree with their terms and conditions.

Just because you changed the words from accept and agree, you do know accepting means you agree!

Please remember this has not come from an accountant nor a financial advisor, this has come from a tax officer, if you use their website which clearly states in their terms and conditions that we are the direct seller and continue to use their website then you agree that you are the direct seller and that you are liable for every item you have sold within their website.

The tax officer also stated that they will come after you and not Envato (The Australian Government Would Need To Do That If They Feel There Is Something Wrong), it would be up to us to go after Envato for any legal action we feel is needed.

Can you afford to go through court with your government and a big company like Envato as well… I know I can not!

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UBLThemes says

And you can’t invoice using author’s personal data, that’s illegal. :) eBay, google play, etc have NOTHING, NOTHING to do with the selling process here. nothing in common. I wonder what they’ll do, actually, since if they wanted to get us to “sign” any document that would make us approve that we’re the direct sellers if we want to continue publishing here

According to my local tax office, as long as they state in their terms and conditions that we are the direct seller, and we continue to use this site, which means that we accept this then we are liable because we accept that we are the direct seller because we are still using their site.

According to my tax office as long as they are paying the VAT they do not really need to give us any information what so ever.

The tax advisor did state that this is legal but very unethical to say the least and does not know why a company would hold back buyers information because this is not a breach of any privacy laws if we are the direct seller!

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UBLThemes says


We don’t require VAT numbers for authors (unless they also happen to be buyers) however we do require country information for all users as buyers and authorities in some countries require seller information to appear on buyer invoices for proper record keeping.

1. Does it means that envato wants to put MY company details on YOUR invoice to the buyers?


We’re working to improve all the documentation we issue, and collecting information such as country of residence and VAT numbers is part of that. In the new year, we’ll be rolling out VAT compliant invoices to buyers and sellers, along with more informative statements. In tandem will be more releases requiring more details from users of Envato Market to ensure that documents are accurate and well composed.

2. What kind of invoice envato wants to send to the authors? What information we will find in this invoice? (I want to see an full example, to discuss this with our accountant)

https://d13yacurqjgara.cloudfront.net/users/2442/screenshots/1785169/invoice.jpg

????

3. What changes are planned for the statements page?
4. Who will be the seller on the information provided for MOSS?

We need detailed answers now. If you can’t answer to this questions, please invite your accountants here.

I have spoken to our tax office within the UK and according to them the company which is the end seller should have full control for the invoicing, and obtaining full details needed for paying their VAT etc.

So them using our company details to invoice for something we are not really in charge of would be very unethical!

Even though it looks like Envato are the end sellers, their terms and conditions and the fact we are continuing on their website is an agreement to their terms which means we are liable and not Envato.

Most authors have said all that matters is what the actual model is, but coming straight from a tax worker from our local tax office within the UK, because we are aware of Envato’s so call model and are still using their website means we accept we are the end seller and nothing else matters.

This has come from an actual tax advisor from the tax office, so everyone who states “as long as you do not think you are the end sellers so everything is ok”, is just burying their head in the sand!

I have a question if possible, and hope for an answer please…

What happens if I do not give my place of residence?

Unfortunately with the way things have gone and the fact that you have not sorted this out before the Jan 1st deadline we will be terminating our account on the 1st as we will not break the law for anyone, we want to pay our taxes and we want to pay them legally!

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UBLThemes says

Hi I have a nice customer who has purchased an html template instead of a wordpress theme and has also purchase an express installation which was automatically passed to us.

Now this is not going to be a express installation because we will have to wait a week for Envato to check it out, I feel sorry for him/her because it is not always their fault.

Granted some of you might say well the price is different or that it does not state it works in wordpress etc etc but 90% of the world do not actually know about html, wordpress, joomla, drupal etc etc

They just want a website, a working website.

There really needs to be an alert button which we can alert a member of staff because you can not have an express installation within 24 hours if problems like this arise and we need a solution quick.

Once this button is clicked then a member of staff need to respond within 12 hours, just like our contract is when first accepting the job proposal.

I have told them it looks like they have purchased a html template and not a wordpress theme and I am just waiting for a reply, because of time difference its a little slow also, for instance:

  • This person sent the proposal at 7pm last night GMT
  • I accepted at 9pm GMT
  • They replied at 12am GMT
  • I replied at 9am GMT

This is painfully slow as it is and waiting for Envato to either offer a refund so the buyer can buy the wordpress theme or to refund the express installation is bad for Envato’s image and authors.

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UBLThemes says

Sorry I have to do this:

LOL LMFAO

I find it disrespectful and an insult that Collis would and probably expects us to accept this.

I bet they put this statement and thought that we simply dumb authors will see Envato are going to pay your VAT and everyone will roll over and they will stroke our bellies…

It seems like they think we are LOW IQ uneducated idiots who believe everything they post.

This is a joke, if we get audited and we say we are the direct seller but Envato pay our VAT while we are VAT registered we will face the wrath of god and face a huge fine or even imprisonment!

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UBLThemes says

where is the old post anyone send a link so i can read ThemePunch’s post

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UBLThemes says

Hi,

I did ask why you have deleted my post and did say that I will assume it was a bug and repost again so sorry if it was deleted and reposted!

From the link provided to what is expected from authors who support, I personally will be opting out and eventually moving on but our heart is still within the community as we did enjoy Envato a lot before you became money hungry horses.

But anyway this is for the people who will be opting in and staying on.

As stated the link which you provided has so many floors to expectations, here is just a couple:

1 What is expected from authors of supported items

Answering questions about the item’s included features and functionality

Authors of supported items are required to answer questions and provide information on how to use or technical questions related to the builtĀ­in functionality and features of their items as advertised on their item pages or in the documentation provided

I know this by experience from real life clients and buyers from Envato who are by far fussier than real life clients who pay thousands but we have noticed in life that the less people pay for things the worst they get. (not all people, just a minority which is getting bigger)

People who are told we have to answer questions regarding how to function the website correctly and anything technical will more or less ask 1 million questions because they are entitled to support, now with magento and wordpress among other platforms this will be the norm as a lot of people do not even know how to install a theme, only last week we had a style.css is missing.

In some cases it will be easier to do a one on one skype to show them how to do things, which is something you should only do to actual clients who spend thousands and not just a few dollars!

What is not included in item support

Customisation services

There can be a fine line between support and customisation, but support does not include any services that modify or extend the item beyond the original features, style and functionality advertised on the item page.

This is very vague and does not give the protection that is needed, for instance:

  1. Protection against over posting of questions and support requests
  2. Behaviour, aggressive or rude behavior… this should be highlighted that support can be declined.
  3. Explain that a timeframe is not set but the author will try their best to answer as quick as possible
  4. Do we need to support from Envato Studios installation providers who do it wrong?
  5. Do we need to install buyers customisations that have gone wrong?
  6. Do we have any rights to refuse incase of aggressive/abusive behaviour or because of customisations that has broke the theme?

That is just a few areas!

For the time you have spent on this and all the feedback from comments and questionnaires this is a pathetic definition.

With the uproar that has taken place and the timeframe you have given yourselves to do this, you guys have just thrown together a text document that took no longer than 5 -10 minutes on all the things that you have already stated in the past.

My expectations was always high on Envato but over the last 2-3 months they have dropped.

Collis you have lost the faith of a lot of authors on here, from the super elite to the more humbled authors, you may think authors need Envato but after testing the water elsewhere I can assure you this will not be for long!

I personally am a little disappointed in this proposal (I use that word lightly) because we loved using Envato and was proud to say our themes are on Themeforest.net but now you are demanding us to give up our freedom and making it impossible to show a legal tax return and vat we are having to step back now :(

653 posts
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UBLThemes says

Hi!

Here is the answer: honest people care about grandfathered.

Support could be optional. Updates are not support. There is a clear distinction.

Safe zone?

Australia is one of the most advanced countries in the world in customers / buyers protection!

If one buyer bought one theme and don’t get updates maybe this buyer will do nothing but will never come back which is bad… People that invested thousands of dollars in themes…. just need to drop one or two emails to the right government agency in Australia and this could be really bad 1).

Everything in this market place is digital. Nothing could be hidden and all the information could be tracked two years back at least.

Nobody is talking about punishing. If it is not your case, you are in a cool situation :-)

$50 or $60 could be nothing or could be a lot depends where you are located.

1)Do not go that way it’s too dangerous and a not honest way.

Again someone talking absolute rubbish.

Please do not state that send one or two emails to anyone will result in anything, no matter which Australian agency you write too!

Everything is digital and everything can be view back to years ago I am sure but no Australian law can make me do anything because I am not trading in Australia nor am I an Australian citizen, which can I state there is no law regarding what you are talking about, I have just spent 20 minutes looking it up and can not find anything like this!

As you have said there are some authors on here who have spent $1000’s on themes.

I can honestly say that not one customer on here has ever purchased $1000’s from 1 author so you point is invalid, we only receive between $30 – $40 from each sale so even talking about $50 – $60 themes is not what we are actually receiving anyway.

I believe all items if live should be supported, but I am against this ruling because of buyers who think they own our time because they purchase a theme for $50 -$60 and most likely made between $3000 and $10000 profit from…

Items should be licensed yearly because unless you are on the top sellers list every week you simply can not sustain high quality updates with good features and compatibility with the latest platform versions.

I have a theme on my portfolio that has only sold 3 times this year, I still have about 3 – 5 support questions a month for this item… I am running a loss every time I answer them now.

In my opinion buyers should not really be within this discussion because they are thinking of only 1 thing, and that is their wallets… Which to be honest have been lightly used for too long…

We are not just theme developers on Themeforest, we are actual web designers/developers on a high street studio and do business all over the UK and to be honest we get paid less for 1 theme than we do from 1 standard client.

1 client = $3000 – $10000 for 1 month developing + 1 month supporting and training.
1 Theme = $3000 – $10000 for 1 month developing + 6 months supporting at best.

So dont think that every author on here is making millions from each theme they sell.

Its only a few elite authors on here who are making a living we all dream about, some are making a good living and most are just making a moderate living.

Offering paid updates will sustain the smaller authors to be able to sustain a theme for longer with better updates, yes it may cost the buyers a few dollars more but at the end of the day the buyers will be happier because they will have better themes for it!

653 posts
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UBLThemes says

What’s valid is the conditions in place at time of purchase, as shown by “typicality” (to use legalese) of observed policy, which historically has been never charging for support or updates here. As a buyer for example if I’ve always gotten updates and support and that’s been typical of all purchases to date (which it has), then it’s a “reasonable expectation” (another legal phrase commerce attorneys use) that the same level of service/support is provided post-purchase. Whether or not that’s in the official tos is not as binding/valid as typicality of use experienced/demonstrated at time of purchase.

So ‘grandfathering in” pre- vs post-support/update charge policy is important. Someone mentioned a similar instance where a theme company that used to offer lifetime theme updates changed to an annual model, those buyers who bought lifetime model are grandfathered in and not charged for updates/support, though all New customers are. That’s fine, and legal.

It’s important you all realize the ‘reasonable expectations’ that were set at time of purchase (nowhere is there for-pay support nor for-pay upgrades here), which is WHY many of us buyers have bought so much. We expect to get what we paid for at time of purchase, which is ongoing support/updates. You can’t take our money then change the rules or tack on new charges for what had been included, After we bought.

If envato wants to start charging for support/updates that’s their perogative, but only for NEW post-TOS change purchases, not for previously-bought items for which we have a legal ‘reasonable expectation’ of ongoing support based on observed behavior by current authors. Feel free to check w/your attorney/ACCC/FTC for clarification. Just like you can’t sell under one license model, then all of a sudden change licensing terms to enforce with older-purchases done under prior license. What Counts is what was in place at time of original purchase. Ask any commerce/trade attorney. I did.

You are talking absolute rubbish.

Just because one author offers free support does not mean that the other authors are legally binded to anything.

Rather than trying to look smart regarding any legal instances I would first look it up first.

On my support website which I am bound too it states that my support is free but I only offer support at my discretion and I have the right to not offer support for any reason or for no reason without notice to anyone.

Since Envato do not hold my support site or do they demand support at present means that my legal contract is what matters and not your “I thought support was mandatory” speculation!

Sorry for being rude but you are being insulting to all authors that you think that spending a few dollars means we are your coding (input B word here) for lifetime and for as many hours as you see fit.

This is why we are against this proposal, because of buyers like this who think they own us (Our time).

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