Ok. I am not at all bothered by entry of another theme author per se, but I do have the following questions:
- Since Woo has its themes on its own site, are they receiving the non-exclusive commission rate of 33% that is offered to all other non-exclusive authors or has some back door deal been worked out between them? I cannot image Woo is settling for only 33% notwithstanding all this “help our friends at Envato” commentary I found in their post at Woo and in the Envato blog.
I would like to see an unequivocal statement from Themeforest that Woo is being treated exactly like all other non-exclusive authors on commission rates, on all themes that are cross-listed – which appear to be all of the themes showing here at Themeforest at this time.
- In reviewing the Themeforest rules and guidelines for theme standards, and for outside linking, it appears these rules have either been ignored, or relaxed. I would like an unequivocal statement from Themeforest that Woo is being held to the exact same standards as all other theme authors.
I know this cannot be the case at this time as, per other comments in this thread, several clear violations have been noted. I also know from conversations with several other them authors in the past that the moment they have violated rule or guideline whether published or not, their themes have been pulled immediately, and without prior notice (to point to one author recently who has experienced this – RT Themes).
So either the policies are applied equally across the board, or they are not. It seems that at this moment, all the Woo themes should be immediately delisted, until their errors and cross linking are fixed.
On all these matters I would appreciate specific, clear, unequivocal responses, from Themeforest so I can understand exactly the playing ground in the marketplace at this time. It very much impacts future decision making in strategies for our forthcoming products.
I should add that as long as the standards and rates are applied equally to Woo as they are to other authors, then welcome to the marketplace. I fear not in the slightest the competition from Woo.
I have requested a staff reply, which I would appreciate being in this thread for all to review.
Lance, we did just go over to the knowledge base and read again the extended licensing examples for both Themeforest themes, and Codecanyon plugins. Now we understand why virtually no theme ever sells an extended license, LOL
We recall a past thread where someone reported to Envato a designer who was selling their website design services based upon a Themeforest theme, and Envato contacted them and had them buy an extended license, but in fact the extended license does not allow a website designer to use a theme for multiple websites – they have to buy a license for each new site. So it seems Envato broke its own licensing terms. I would be very curious to see how many extended theme licenses sold actually meet the license terms, vs being bought by designers who think they now have an unlimited license for site building (which is not the case according to the knowledge base).
The CodeCanyon License Usage Example says
The Extended License could be used for any of the following: Part of a software package for sale.
So is a new theme a “software package”? If yes then all questions go away! We consider a new theme to be a software package, but does Envato?
We did understand and agree with the point in the Plugin Extended Licensing Description:
f.You may incorporate the Work in a work which is created for Resale by you or your client (provided that (i) only the complete work is offered for sale, (ii) where technically possible, you must ensure the Work cannot be extracted as a stand-alone item from the second work, and (ii) the terms of sale prohibit the buyer extracting or re-using the Work as a stand-alone item).
We assume a new theme is considered a complete work, and if the plugin is integrated into the core in one of the ways which we previously described, then it is not normally extractable as a standalone useable item, and even were it so, one would not get the shortcodes etc that are hooking into it, except with a great degree of difficulty. The terms of prohibiting buyer extraction are fine.
The grey continues, but as long as we are all in sync that a theme is a software package, then the issue of standalone type plugin integration into the theme framework is resolved.
robocreatif saidI’d have to see the specific example, but that doesn’t sound right to me (assuming this was purchased since the changes were made). Email support and message me the ticket ID number.
What constitutes a “larger project?” I’ve just been made a aware of a product being sold on another site that’s using an item of mine as the main focus. Essentially it’s my item in a PHP wrapper as an add-on for a CMS .
I can only assume they purchased an extended license when I was opted-in, since we have no way of seeing who purchased what. It seems a little out of line to directly approach the developer and ask for their license code. I suppose what’s bugging me the most is that a single license of that item is being sold for $5 more than what the extended license cost.How do updates apply in this case? As I update my item, they can continue to simply download it and pop the updated files into their item?
Lance thank you for the reply.
It sort of helps, but I don’t believe the response provides enough clarity. In the example I cited about Striking having several built in plugins, of course Striking could have been designed to operate without those plugins – it gained “added” functionality as a result of their integration, but it could have worked without them as well. No plugin is a life or death situation for a theme. But citing the Striking example, the plugins are “integral” simply as they have been “Integrated” and thus certain theme functions/shortcodes/attributes rely on them as a result. In their absence, those functions/shortcodes/attributes would fail.
Your response was reading fine we came to the part about the payment gateways. That threw us because we could take that example, and stretch it to integrating another wp slider plugin, or gallery plugin, any of the shortcode plugins, the facebook/twitter/soclal media plugins, backup plugins, cms plugins, and really, almost every plugin in the repository.
The line drawn is still so murky, as it has a whole bunch of “if statements” attached. Whereas we believe it really should be yes other then as a part of a theme bundle or stand alone product. Now instead it is: might be, could be, maybe, etc…..
I just contacted two of the premium wp plugin developers (premium meaning their plugins sell, and they keep them up to date), and we had a discussion after reviewing the response, and we resolved that nothing was really resolved by the Envato response. Neither they or we could determine if it was permissible for we to buy an extended license for their plugin, add it to a theme framework and the theme be put up for sale.
Perhaps, one thing Envato might consider doing with the plugins is distinguishing between standalone/primary plugins and the added functionality plugins . A standalone plugin would be eligible for extended licensing should the author so desire, but a plugin that provides added functionality to another plugin would not be available for an extended license.
So taking some examples, the woocommerce plugin (not in this marketplace anyways) would be considered a primary plugin. However, the gateways plugins that depend on the woocommerce plugin to operate are not eligible for extended licenses. Using a marketplace example – the Styles with Shortcodes would be a considered a primary plugin and eligible for extended licensing, but the many addons dependent upon it for operation would not, and thus not be available for an extended license.
We think things need to be more defined on this issue. Perhaps our grasp is the same as yours, and we are missing the point, but as noted, conferring with some plugin authors led us all to the conclusion that the light was not yet shining, at least for any of us.
Lance Thank you for finally providing an update.
I want to re-emphasize, we are inquiring about purchasing plugins, and building them into a theme. For example, the Striking theme currently integrates plugins such as breadcrumbs-plus, guar Sitemaps, google xml sitemaps, wp-pagenavi and Envato can review Striking to see what has been done. With each of these plugins, they have been integrated into the theme framework. So there are some plugins that we might purchase, integrate in a similar manner and build theme functions based upon this integration.
But there are also some plugins at Codecanyon that are in need of fairly significant rework, in those instances, we desire to buy an extended license, take apart the code, and rebuild/update it and integrate into future work, potentially not even in plugin form – thus in that instance the license purchase is to cover off whatever code from the original plugin might remain, even were it only one line of css.
Is hard to fathom what else an extended license for a plugin could be used for – if not the above purposes, then why does the extended license even exists for wp plugins? From our conversations with several plugin authors (we have helped a few here and there with code matters) it is pretty clear that this is what they think it is for, and they believe they are missing out on income opportunities since the issue has not been clarified. There is a forum thread at the moment where authors are griping about the lack of sales of extended licenses, and no wonder, as no one is willing to buy one at this time until this matter is clarified.
We can already guess at an issue Envato is actually grasping with – situations where a theme developer has paid say $100 for an extended plugin license, then goes on to sell several hundred copies of a theme or more, and thus you, and perhaps the author, are feeling that the plugin remuneration was not consummate with the outcome. But if so, we beg to differ. The long term success of a theme is never based solely on one piece of criteria. I would like to be pointed to any theme wherein it could be said the sole success was based on plugin integration(s). We all know the formula for theme success – its always a mix of good code, competitive features, and support. Furthermore, the theme author takes the financial risk up front by making an advance purchase for which they have no guarantee of any recovery.
Policing is another matter. That is the purpose of a good, clear license. It is then legally enforceable should it be necessary.
It is within our ability to build almost any plugin or functionality from the ground up without buying a plugin at codecanyon. Whether we would not end up reinventing the wheel, and thus setting up the potential for a legal battle down the road, is questionable – there are really only so many ways to tell a button to be a button, or a slide out to be a slide out – and in many instances, the php backing most of the plugins is found somewhere in the public domain previously. But it would be nice to buy from the marketplace – it saves work, and rewards the plugin authors, thus contributing and building the community.
We do entirely agree that one should not be buying a plugin, and simply including it in their theme package as an add-on or stand alone plugin.
Hopefully a decision on this matter will be forthcoming shortly.
Ok, having reviewed the post “Extended License Changes – Part 1” and also “Extended License Usage Examples, specific confirmation of the following question is requested:
Can a Codecanyon WP plugin be purchased, and integrated into a WP Theme for sale?
It appears the answer is yes, as the Extended License Usage Examples stipulates:
2. Using an item as a small element of a larger project: 1. A jQuery slider from CodeCanyon could be used in a theme for sale.
However, a specific confirmation in writing is requested from someone who is authorized to speak on behalf of Envato and bind the corporation. This way, there is no ambiguity, or “oh, but we did not mean that…..” sort of thing.
It was most “interesting” that all the examples provided by Envato all skipped around what has been one of the most common questions for a long time on the forums.
Please note that “integrated” for the purpose of this question means taking the plugin, and actually integrating it into the core of a theme, not just having it appear as a separate item in the theme bundle – which per the Usage Examples, is clearly prohibited:
The following usages are always prohibited, regardless of license: 1. Buying items to distribute on their own or within a bundle.
Integration may or may not include substantial modification of the plugin abilities, styles, etc.
Thank you in advance for your timely response.
Besides the fact many of the good addons don’t work with FF6 , I also find that FF6 is very slow to load most sites.
I made a video which I may post later, where I browse to many popular sites like Envato, Cnn, ebay, etc. With FF6 , loading times are significantly slower then what I was using previously FF3 .2xx. Sometimes page load times were more then double. Its pretty funny – I try to go to the Envato blog, and it takes over 40 seconds from the main page – but with IE9 it transitions right away loading in the normal time.
Also with the older version of FF, you could at least see the page load even if it was gradual. Now until it has fully loaded, you usually have a blank screen, so one is in limbo in the interim. Extremely annoying.
I am not sure what is going on with FF, but they seem to have really screwed up since hitting version 4 and beyond.
So bye bye FF6 !!
Since I use both WP and Joomla, as well as pure HTML /CSS for third party development I thought I would chip in.
I suggest that for ease of use, ease of editing and management – Wordpress. Its more intuitive for customers, has more plugin options then Joomla and a huge support community in case one has questions. This is on the assumption that eventually your clients will be doing their own posting, including with images, etc. Every time I have put both Joomla and WP in front of a client to do something, WP has won out for quickest time to grasp and implement.
I hope my quick reply is of some help.
Avoid Hostgator. Avoid at all costs GoDaddy. I do a lot of installation and permissions work on a forum I help mod, and both these hots are very (extremely) problematic.
If possible, find a host who offers Cpanel with Fantastico Plus for your shared hosting plan. There are lots of good ones in the range of $60 a year if you are signing up for more then 12 months.
Every template indicates its documentation level in the Item Description section where you see compatibility to browsers, etc. I have yet to see a template that did not include installation instructions, but they can vary from a few sentences to very detailed. Generally a “well documented” theme has more detailed install instructions.
Once you buy a template, you can modify anything you want.
Hi Marathonguiden / Sven:
Striking has a dedicated support forum, and a sticky thread for users having issues with loading images.
It is almost certainly to do with your host and setting the correct CHMOD permissions.
While I fail to understand why you would not avail yourself of the dedicated support available to all Striking purchasers, which includes the developer and mods going into your setup to set your permissions for you if you fail in your own attempts, I will commence by pointing the way to a thread that may assist you:
Your registration at the forum (which takes about 30 seconds and allows you to post immediately) would be a good way to commence resolving your problem!!