Not sure why you felt the need to be tough on twitter, I have not been once disrespectful to you. But maybe thats your personality either way have a good day
Let’s start over then. I’m not a fan of passive aggressiveness. If you want to know why I may come across as have hatred for Envato theme authors I have no problem if you straight up asking.
For anyone else wondering I explained in in prior reply on this thread that I don’t hate all Envato authors but our business as had to deal with plenty of poorly developed themes from Envato authors which has cost us a lot of support hours which means a lot of man hours i’m paying as a business owner.
But our communication with Envato has improved greatly and we have a great relationship with Japh and pass on the name of themes that have issues as we encounter them.
I have no ongoing issue with Envato or it’s authors and my original reply here was to assist authors in understanding how the GPL can play nicely with Envato’s exclusivity arrangement.
not here to pick a fight just stating a observation, I shouldn’t have to refresh you made the original statement and thats what I was replying too.
If you’re not here to pick a fight then don’t state an observation that is worded to do so. My reply in this thread was to provide clarification to the authors that were confused by the GPL and Envato’s exclusivity terms and how it impacted those terms (it doesn’t). If I didn’t want to help those Envato authors that had questions about it, I would have simply said nothing.
But this does illustrate the fact that Envato authors have no F’n clue what the GPL is, what it’s about or how it will or most likely won’t impact them.
You shouldn’t generalize many authors know exactly what GPL is about, as theres less than a 1% of authors posting in this thread.Not sure why you’re so bitter about themeforest authors, but wouldn’t it be more proactive to educate without insulting people?
Maybe you should refresh because I had edited my post to say “many”. I’m well aware not all authors don’t know what the GPL is because i’m friends with plenty of them.
I had copied and pasted from tweets where less characters can be used. I’m not bitter at all. I commented to educate those on here that had questions regarding Envato’s exclusivity and the GPL.
If I was bitter towards Envato I wouldn’t have said a damn thing and let everyone in here continue to debate something that has a simple answer.
Am I bitter towards SOME Envato authors? Sure. You would be to if your employees had to waste as much support time on a weekly basis due to poorly developed themes that came from ThemeForest as we have over the last 4+ years supporting Gravity Forms. But we report those themes as we encounter them to Japh to be pulled or corrected. But I certainly wish we didn’t have to waste so many man hours because a theme author is selling a poorly coded theme.
Envato exclusivity arrangements aren’t hindered by the GPL one bit.
The exclusivity is attached to the author and where they themselves sell their code. It has nothing to do with the code itself. The exclusivity means the author can’t sell it elsewhere. It doesn’t have anything to do with the end users and how they use it.
The GPL has everything to do with end users and what they can and can’t do with the code. It has nothing to do with the author and where he can and can’t sell it.
If you agree to exclusivity that’s an agreement between you and Envato and is outside of the GPL as it related to the code itself.
But this does illustrate the fact that many Envato authors have no F’n clue what the GPL is, what it’s about or how it will or most likely won’t impact them.
As for the believe that going GPL means some idiot is going to bundle your themes and sell them for pennies… sure it may happen but not in any scale that will have any kind of consequence. Envato wouldn’t allow it to happen on their own marketplace. Just because something is GPL and an Author is well within his rights to resell someone else’s work doesn’t mean Envato or any other reputable marketplace would allow them to do so on their service.
Take WordPress.org for instance. Do you think they’d allow someone to put all of WooThemes commercial themes in the WordPress.org theme repository? They are GPL afterall so anyone could do this. But the team that runs WordPress.org isn’t going to allow this to happen because because it’s in poor taste and they wouldn’t approve the theme submissions.
The fear and scare tactics used by people to claim the GPL will hurt their sales are being made by people who have no clue what they are talking about and have no experience selling GPL products.
Here’s a great idea that many of you should take to heart… quit making overly complex themes because it’s obvious many of you don’t really have a clue what you are doing.
Some of the comments in this thread make it clear that some of you don’t get the impact your poor development decisions have on the community as a whole. If you did, maybe the Gravity Forms support team wouldn’t have to spend so much time helping ThemeForest customers fix poorly developed themes that break plugins that are developed correctly.
As it is we practically need a dedicated support team member specifically to assist customers running poorly developed ThemeForest themes.
ThemeForest needs more developers like Orman Clark and Mike McAlister. The fact that some of you are discounting what Justin has to say is extremely disheartening and it’s those developers that contributes to making ThemeForest the butt of so many jokes in the WordPress development community.
Many of you have no business selling themes to the public.
But isn’t a question of developers, is a question of the buyers.
We (developers) try do what sells and what sells is what customers wants, and customers don’t like the plugins (almost don’t like) – they need the function with the theme, don’t want setup a plugin, and we can’t just say.
“Come on, go find a plugin to the shortcodes, this theme is only to presentation” – in true, I can say it, but a another theme from other developer that has the code he wants will with all the sure get more money.
I’ll stay stuck with my only-presentation theme at 0-20 sales while the other theme that implements everything in the theme – even with a bad code, will have +400 sales….Cheers!
This is a great example of how NOT to develop a product. Once you let users dictate what your product is and does it will turn into a disaster. It’s a sure fire way to create a mess of a product.
Are users demanding and want their themes (or plugins) to do XYZ ? Sure. But that doesn’t mean they have ANY concept of how WordPress works and what is actually best for them.
Give the users GOOD solutions. Worry about creating a quality product. Don’t try to cater to all of their demands.
I guarantee you that all of the Gravity Forms users we have helped with fixing the RAW code issue when they encounter it regret purchasing a theme with so many bells and whistles due to the problems that can result in cramming too much into a theme by a developer who doesn’t fully understand the ramifications of the code he’s included.
@RDever I don’t have an alternative solution for you. I just know the solution that many theme developers are using is NOT a good solution and is not something that should be included in themes.
I would say if something you are doing is being broken by autop then you need to find an alternative way to accomplish what you are trying to do. Changing the core WordPress behavior to suit the needs of an issue your theme has encountered is not the way to go about doing it.
WordPress plugins need to rely on WordPress behaving like WordPress. If a theme changes WordPress so it no longer behaves like WordPress… it can and will break things. The RAW shortcode is a great example of this.
Best option for what exactly? Describe to me the problem or the issue that theme developers are thinking they are solving by implementing this code.
One thing theme developers should never be doing is implementing code that globally changes fundamental WordPress behavior that plugins rely on to function properly.
The theme is just that. A theme. Too many developers have lost sight of that. The theme shouldn’t be making such deep global changes to WordPress itself. It should simply handle the presentation layer of the site.
I have to say that I think ThemeForest’s newer policy of pricing a theme based on how complex it’s functionality is probably adds to the problem. To sell my theme for more money I simply need to make it more complex and provide more functionality? TERRIBLE THINKING . Themes do TOO MUCH and really should DO LESS . Plugins should handle the heavy lifting and more advanced functionality.
Another important point to make is developers who are building themes that they are selling to the public need to FULLY understand any code they are implementing in the theme and it’s ramifications. Anyone that truly understands how WordPress works should be able to look at this code and see what kind of negative impacts it could have.
Unfortunately too many people are copy-n-pasting bad code like this and including it without fully understanding it. This thread is a great example of that. It’s being posted for other developers to use because “it’s cool”. No, it’s not cool.
Under no circumstances should ANY theme developer implement this code in their theme if they are selling it to the general public. DON ’T USE THIS CODE IN YOUR THEME , IT WILL BREAK THINGS .
A theme should NOT be changing core WordPress behavior this way. YES it’s true that it does not “remove” the autop behavior, it “moves” it. BUT that has major ramifications.
The end result is this shortcode changes default WordPress behavior and parses ALL shortcode output through autop. Plugins do NOT expect this to happen and it CAN and WILL break things.
This is BAD , BAD, BAD .
We develop a little plugin called Gravity Forms. Inclusion of this code by theme developers costs us countless hours in support time assisting users who encounter problems with Gravity Forms beause of poorly developed themes that include this code.
Quit copy-n-pasting shit you find online and try fully understanding the code you place in your themes before you go selling them to people.