Posts by digitalscience

4742 posts Interactive Design
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
  • Interviewed on an Envato blog
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
+8 more
digitalscience says

Envato you can’t have limited 6 months support and unlimited updates.. what use is updates if the support has expired.. what if there are problems or questions with new updates and support has expired? If support is going to be limited, you’re going have to make updates limited too. Otherwise it’s just going to create more problems, at least now buyers can still ask questions at any point.

4742 posts Interactive Design
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
  • Interviewed on an Envato blog
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
+8 more
digitalscience says

If one author cannot stand what he announces, that author should not announce / have not to advertise free lifetimes updates to buyers or potential buyers. If you* cannot or want not honour the information you* are announcing and advertising about free lifetime updates, so give me my money back! Period. *you in this context means those who advertise free lifetime updates.

But as a buyer, when someone says “lifetime updates”.. what does that mean exactly, surely it’s easy to see it’s more of a selling gimmick, as it’s not realistic. What if the author get’s hit by a bus tomorrow? And who exactly needs lifetime updates any ways? A few years is all that is needed, websites usually get replaced every few years.

So I don’t see why it’s a big deal if Envato had to say that support and updates is limited. Buyers are still getting their monies worth, they a get a theme that took months to design and build, and author support, and updates – and all this for a few dollars, its a sweet deal. You’re making it sound like you’re getting a ripped off somehow.. but I think having a limit on support and updates is fair and reasonable.

4742 posts Interactive Design
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
  • Interviewed on an Envato blog
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
+8 more
digitalscience says

Unlimited free updates is only feasible if we were selling items at cost price, but since we’re selling items at micro-stock prices there should be a limited support and update period. It doesn’t make sense that users 2 years ago, which only spent a few dollars per item, are still getting new features and versions of templates for free and will continue to do so for years.

A year licence makes sense for updates, and since Envato wants to make support mandatory – we might as well make support and updates included in the price for one year. And the year time period is pretty standard on Envato e.g. downloads expire after a year, deposited fund expire after a year, and so can support and updates expire after a year. And a year is a long time considering what customers are paying per item.

Buyers should understand that we only receive a few dollars profit per sale, so if they want continued updates and support over years, they’ll need to pay a little more in to receive those benefits. Support and updates takes hours of our time, so authors need some incentive and compensation to provide this service.

Personally I think this is reasonable and anyone who understands business will see that offering unlimited free updates over years, is not feasible – especially if we’re selling items at micro-stock prices. Change is inevitable but the market will adapt – but with paid updates and support comes better guarantees for buyers and more incentive for authors to build and maintain their items.

Envato has been like the Wild West the last couple years when it comes to support and buyer expectations, so it’s good that we’re clearing up all those misconceptions and talking about better regulations and incentives, it’s good and healthy for the marketplace.

4742 posts Interactive Design
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
  • Interviewed on an Envato blog
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
+8 more
digitalscience says
Envato is proposing:
  • 6 month support
  • Unlimited free updates

  • Some of us are proposing:
  • 12 month support
  • 12 month free updates

  • Which sounds better for authors?
    4742 posts Interactive Design
    • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
    • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
    • Interviewed on an Envato blog
    • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
    +8 more
    digitalscience says


    When I bought over 1,500 items, it was without limitations on support, and my expectation (and I’m sure other buyers as well), is that we’ll continue to be supported since that was in place WHEN we Originally Bought things here.
    All items had been sold and are sold right now without support whatsoever and “as it is” license. I’m not sure how you’ve got the impression that there is no limitation on support when support is not even included with the item.

    Yep this is the problem, buyers have assumed support was guaranteed and unlimited, and when they pay someone a few dollars for their hard work they’re expected to support the item 5 – 10 years down the line.. which is just not feasible for authors.

    But graphic4444, Envato has now realized that we need to have more clear outlines on support and the limitations since the survey revealed many buyers have mixed opinions on how it works. Just because it worked a certain way before, doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the right way.

    4742 posts Interactive Design
    • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
    • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
    • Interviewed on an Envato blog
    • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
    +8 more
    digitalscience says

    @ digitalscience — Two small points on paid updates (which I’m so glad people are finally pressuring Envato for).

    1. I think update access should only be sold in 12 month increments. Nobody can predict where they’ll be a year from today, so let’s not commit as authors (or buyers) to something 1-5 years from now. That’s just as unfeasible as “lifetime updates”. Keep it simple with just two options: purchase license and renew license.

    2. The question of when exactly a license renewal begins from needs to be addressed. It could start from the date of renewal for 12 months (I think that’s fair). Or it could stem from the last license’s expiration, in which you may need to purchase multiple renewals to catch up after several years. I think that’s overly complicated with minimal gain. I’d want customers to stay updated yearly as long as I’m providing updates worth paying for.

    Good point, an additional 1-5 years is long ;) I just added that in because Envato suggested offering an extension plan upfront… but a year plan included with purchase or a renewal sounds right. Also I think the renewal begins on purchase of the extension, and when they do so they get the latest version of the theme regardless of how long it’s been since they purchased the theme.

    4742 posts Interactive Design
    • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
    • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
    • Interviewed on an Envato blog
    • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
    +8 more
    digitalscience says

    Paid updates is making more and more sense. If we build a theme and it’s approved as working and we guarantee it will work and be supported for a year, that sounds reasonable, since we only make a few dollars per sale. If we sell a theme and 3 years down the line, there is some bug caused by a new api or whatever that we need to fix, that’s not our fault (we can’t predict the future) and will take us time to update and cut into our initial profit. So paid updates gives us compensation to keep maintaining themes, especially older themes which sell less frequently.

    But for this to work, users can only comment for support if they’ve paid for the update plan, then we can assume they have the latest version and can assist them, once their yearly subscription ends – they’ll have to renew to continue receiving support and updates. And then Envato can add an additional 1 – 5 (or whatever) year plan prior to purchasing.

    So this way, the support is still free and up to the author (which 95% of authors will be doing), what buyers are paying for is updates so they have the latest version so then we’re still sticking to the concept of mirco-stock selling as commission is earned on additional work added to the products.

    Opting out – will just means the author doesn’t plan on supporting or updating – it’s a once off deal. But if say a vulnerability popped up down the line, they’d need to fix it to keep selling, otherwise they’d be selling a faulty product.

    4742 posts Interactive Design
    • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
    • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
    • Interviewed on an Envato blog
    • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
    +8 more
    digitalscience says


    +1 for the paid updates that contains new features, and actually -1 for the new proposal. Updates with security changes should be free, but the discussion about the paid updates should be on another thread. Personally I wouldn’t charge for each and every update as I do have a couple of items which I kinda update regularly, however at X updates a fee would be nice.

    That’s just overcomplicating things. There is no way something like that would work on a market as big as Envato.

    It should be simple – you get access to updates and support for one year after the initial purchase, and then you have to buy an extension to continue having access to those. It’s a model that just works, plain and simple.

    +1 100% agree.

    4742 posts Interactive Design
    • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
    • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
    • Interviewed on an Envato blog
    • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
    +8 more
    digitalscience says

    My question for Envato again: Why do you feel the need to change the Item Support if as you guys said: 95% of authors support all their items, and 5% of them support only some. Why are you so evasive in giving a straight answer.

    Main reason is to make it clear to buyers what they can expect from support. Other reasons which they might not mention is to make some extra money from support which we were doing for free ;)

    4742 posts Interactive Design
    • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
    • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
    • Interviewed on an Envato blog
    • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
    +8 more
    digitalscience says

    ^ I think buyers have a had a sweet deal for a long time.. free support and free updates for lifetime for a few bucks? Some of the updates to themes are almost like complete revamps, with even new plugins and value added.. I honestly think buyers will understand paying a little extra for updates is fair and reasonable.

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