Posts by greenshady

158 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 6 years
  • Has referred 50+ members
  • Has sold $1,000+ on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
+1 more
greenshady says

For WordPress 3.7 we decided to shorten the development cycle and focus on a few key improvements
So it’s going to be quite a small version change on this one :) Not sure the point of making it a whole new version though, rather than just a subversion?

That’s just how WP versioning works, which follows this model:

x.x = (Major.Minor)

Major versions add new functionality. Minor versions are patches or bug fixes. Of course, there are other versioning methods, but this is what WP follows.

Anyway, you should watch this video where Matt talks about the pace change: http://wordpress.tv/2013/07/29/matt-mullenweg-state-of-the-word-2013/
158 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 6 years
  • Has referred 50+ members
  • Has sold $1,000+ on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
+1 more
greenshady says


What I mean by this is that people from the TF community should be creating GitHub projects to handle these things so that users aren’t running into these problems. As theme authors, you have an ideal chance to work together and build something that’s actually useful for your users in both the short and long term.
Great idea. I always thought that you and Genesis framework have a perfect opportunity to work together. Ever though of teaming up with them and just releasing one framework?

Genesis didn’t exist when I first started Hybrid Core. That was back in Brian’s Revolution days.

Nevertheless, the two concepts are fundamentally different. Hybrid Core is a development/programming framework catered to building regular/parent themes. Genesis is an advanced parent theme that’s catered to building child themes.

Essentially, StudioPress could stick the Hybrid Core framework inside of the Genesis theme (to make a super theme). However, you can’t stick Genesis inside of Hybrid Core.

158 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 6 years
  • Has referred 50+ members
  • Has sold $1,000+ on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
+1 more
greenshady says

1.) If we need to put all shortcodes into plugin in order to prevent the lost of user content when switching themes, does it mean that we also need to put all shortcode CSS styling with the plugin?

I ask because if we don’t put styling with the plugin, the content will surely exist after switching but they will mess up with no proper CSS in the new theme. It is then useless in my opinion.

But if we do put styling with the plugin, the content and CSS will exist in the new theme but the style might not match with overall look and feel of the new theme (and there may be some CSS conflict occurred). Is that the user issue to customize the plugin styles? We do not need to worry about this issue right?

It actually depends on the shortcode(s) in question. If the shortcode absolutely requires some CSS to actually “work”, CSS should go within the plugin. I would just make this the minimum CSS needed if it really needs to be styled by a theme.

Assuming you properly load the CSS via the plugin (wp_enqueue_style), you can remove this style in your theme and roll custom CSS for each theme you use the plugin with. Check out this plugin for an example of how this concept works.


2.) If every author put the shortcodes into their own plugins, don’t you think that the user/buyer will end up with more useless plugins after switching themes?

Scenario: Author “John” published his theme with “John Plugin” that included all the shortcodes to be used with the theme. A user bought and used his theme. Several months later, the user wanted to use another theme from author “Mary” who also made her theme with “Mary Plugin”.

The user switched the theme from John’s to Mary’s. Perfect. The content and shortcodes were still there because “John Plugin” is still active. But he then realized that in order to make the styles of shortcode work well with Mary’s theme, he needed to use “Mary Plugin”. And now the user also noticed that there are mixed custom fields and meta boxes of those two plugins on the page’s edit screen.

The problem here is: if the user disable “John Plugin” to use “Mary Plugin”, he will get messy shortcodes/content generated by “John Plugin” and the plugin is then useless. This is not different from “not using plugin at all” in the first place.

How do you advise in this case? What’s your opinion?

This is why I expected there to be a ton of topics opened here on the forums about working together. You all have businesses in an open source community. The new submission requirements are a perfect opportunity to truly take advantage of this fact.

What I mean by this is that people from the TF community should be creating GitHub projects to handle these things so that users aren’t running into these problems. As theme authors, you have an ideal chance to work together and build something that’s actually useful for your users in both the short and long term.

If all TF theme authors are putting their own shortcodes into their own plugins, then everyone is kind of missing the point that the phase 2 submission requirements are attempting to address.


3.) Regarding the previous concern, you might think that then most authors should use any of the existing plugins instead of creating their own plugins. If so, don’t you think that the theme author’s ideas and creativity will be limited by the existing plugins? What if the author wanted more “unique” styles and functionality that none of the existing plugins could provide?

Based on my experience, if you do the previous two things I wrote about above, this third things is rarely a problem.

158 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 6 years
  • Has referred 50+ members
  • Has sold $1,000+ on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
+1 more
greenshady says
Here’s a good question: If a theme developer wanted to relearn how they handle theme creation, what resources would prove to be useful? The obvious one from that post: WP’s Theme Review Guidelines – What else?

Can you be more specific? I can point you to many resources. Just let me know what you want to learn about. The Theme Review Guidelines are a good general set of guidelines for creating themes.

He is quick to state that he isn’t in it for the money, but I’m wary as that is exactly what a silver-tongued devil would say anyway.

The experiment itself was not about money. There was never any statement made about not being in it for the money in a more general sense.

He ends the post with multiple plugs for his own plugins as well, which just makes me even more skeptical on his intentions.

All three of those plugins are open source and $free. They’re available on the WordPress.org plugin repository. They were made as a result of the experiment to help theme authors and users. If you look at the three plugins, they’re all developed to be used in conjunction with themes.

As I understand it, he wants us to remove “hard-coded” features in favor of more general features provided by plugins, right? That seems to be the most resolute way to handle this for the developer’s side; it caters to the entire developmental team for a typical WP installation – Theme and Plugins.

Not necessarily hardcoded features. It’s specific to much of phase 2 of ThemeForest’s new theme submission requirements. Essentially, it’s about proper separation of plugin and theme functionality, at least the functionality that either breaks a user’s site or causes them to lose access to content they’ve created when switching to a new theme.

158 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 6 years
  • Has referred 50+ members
  • Has sold $1,000+ on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
+1 more
greenshady says

I don’t understand what the actual experiment was?

From the opening paragraph of the article linked above:

The major goal behind the experiment was to see if I could bring some awareness to other theme authors there about writing better code and playing nicely with the 1,000s of other themes and plugins out there for WordPress.
158 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 6 years
  • Has referred 50+ members
  • Has sold $1,000+ on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
+1 more
greenshady says

What’s allowed will depend on the particular brand. You’ll need to read up on company’s policies about using their brand logos.

158 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 6 years
  • Has referred 50+ members
  • Has sold $1,000+ on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
+1 more
greenshady says

Honestly, I’m not defending bad practices. I was saying that innovation isn’t driven by standards which is what greenshady had made it sound like he believed. I disagree with that and though someone should say it.

That’s not what I said exactly. I said I think standards would help push innovation. Standards are by no means the driving force behind innovation. That takes great thinking.

Forcing some degree of conformity around a set of standards is not a bad thing and can actually help people innovate. You get rid of a lot of the chaos and gain more focus, which allows you to simply get things done.

I think part of the problem is that people think that standards are some sort of box you get stuck in. They focus too much on this immaterial concept rather than thinking of all the cool and interesting things you can do with the box.

158 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 6 years
  • Has referred 50+ members
  • Has sold $1,000+ on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
+1 more
greenshady says


Let’s just forget code quality and standards as long as we’re innovating. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive, by the way.
Leaving alone code quality (which i’m all for) and talking strictly against standards, innovation was always killed by standards. You cannot really innovate and respect standards. These two terms contradict each other..

The larger WordPress theme community seems to disagree. ThemeForest isn’t the only place to see innovation. There are plenty of other theme sites outside of WordPress.org that are innovating while following WordPress standards. The argument that standards stifle innovation has already been beaten to death throughout the years in many fields.

I’m not saying we need to necessarily go the WordPress Theme Review route. I actually do believe their strict adherence to guidelines can actually hurt innovation at times. But, a good bit of common sense (e.g., is this something non-standard that is actually innovative and can’t be done in a better way?) goes a long way on the part of the reviewer.

We can always quabble over the minor things as far as standardization is concerned. But, the benefits of adhering to higher-level concepts like separating function from form should be fairly evident.

158 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 6 years
  • Has referred 50+ members
  • Has sold $1,000+ on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
+1 more
greenshady says




ThemeForest Premium Themes != Wordpress.org Themes

Of course not. Most (not all) TF themes don’t come close to the code quality and proper use of WordPress standards that themes in the WordPress.org repo do.

Hence, the new submission requirements.

Edit: Just to add to the above, I want to say that this is not an insult. Some people will take it that way. I, for one, am happy to see the new requirements. I think it could result in a lot of good things for ThemeForest and will help push innovation once everyone gets over this initial shock.

Yeah, I find myself constantly looking to the wordpress.org themes directory as an example of theme innovation. It’s baffling that sites like this can break even let alone earn a profit when you have competition like that. :/
Code quality is one thing.. Innovation is another thing and cannot be seen anywhere in the wp repo, lol. Maybe themes from there have a really high code quality, but are almost useless for complex sites. If buyers would find innovation there they wouldn’t come here for themes :D

No one really wants to respond to the actual point and just say that themes here are more innovative (not something I’ve argued against at all)? That’s the rebuttal?

Let’s just forget code quality and standards as long as we’re innovating. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive, by the way.

158 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 6 years
  • Has referred 50+ members
  • Has sold $1,000+ on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
+1 more
greenshady says

ThemeForest Premium Themes != Wordpress.org Themes

Of course not. Most (not all) TF themes don’t come close to the code quality and proper use of WordPress standards that themes in the WordPress.org repo do.

Hence, the new submission requirements.

Edit: Just to add to the above, I want to say that this is not an insult. Some people will take it that way. I, for one, am happy to see the new requirements. I think it could result in a lot of good things for ThemeForest and will help push innovation once everyone gets over this initial shock.

by
by
by
by
by
by