Posts by horizonq8

28 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 2 years
  • Has collected 100+ items on Envato Market
  • Located in United Kingdom
horizonq8 says




Why would I want to refund someone since he got what he paid for?

Very true – let’s look at the situation in another real-life scenario:

A person buys a t-shirt at a clothing store and then starts harassing the shop with weird requests like:

“Why doesn’t my t-shirt have a hoody and long sleeves?”
“I like the colour, but it’s not really what i need..”
If you don’t stitch sleeves and a hoody to my t-shirt, i will write bad reviews about you all over the internet.

The refund solution proposed here would be equivalent to the shop owner telling the client:

“Here’s your money back, keep the t-shirt and get out of my face, don’t come back.

Bottom line, the shop has lost the value of 1 t-shirt, is not happy, the buyer is probably not happy either.

I still like the possiblity to force a refund, as i had a few buyers wherei would have happily given a refund rather than keep bending backwards to try and please them.. but still.. the whole concept of refunding a digital asset is wrong.

It’s like asking for a refund for a meal at the restaurant because you didn’t enjoy it.

Hardly a good example mate – I can try the tshirt and see if it fits me, try it. Don’t have to rely only on the fact that it looks good. In case of most items, there isn’t an admin demo. I have no means of knowing, if say, the WP plugin I buy, will work with my setup.

You’d need a big disclaimer on every piece of script on Envato before thinking about about blocking buyers from authors just because the asked for a refund of an item.

How would that work for product marketing? “This is a standalone script. Despite being made to work with Worpdress, we can only hope it works with the core of the CMS and the default theme. You’re on your own after the purchase”.

Probably not so well lol.

There is no need to go to extremes when searching for a solution. Middle ground is obtainable. Atm, Envato seems to only consider either alienating authors by ridiculously long forced support, or buyers, by not doing anything rational about lack of it. I’d drop the two options, and start from scratch. Someone needs to take a step back and look at the whole picture.

You are wrong in my opinion. His example is actually very good.

Hardly a good example mate – I can try the tshirt and see if it fits me, try it. Don’t have to rely only on the fact that it looks good. In case of most items, there isn’t an admin demo. I have no means of knowing, if say, the WP plugin I buy, will work with my setup.
Every author specifies the requirements for that product to work. If you meet those requirements then it will work, if it doesn’t work then it means is something wrong with the product, and you are eligible for a refund already as per the Knowledgebase. Not to mention that the Items are being tested before being approved, and 90% of them have a demo already.

I wish that was true. Sadly, that is very often not the case. Especially products that require a framework of some sort to work with, like a CMS. From my personal experience, very few authors bother running their ready templates/plugins through an array of widely available tools to actually make sure their work adheres to the best coding practice for a particular framework.

I always test all wordpress plugin with a fresh WP install on the default theme. The amount of them that cause issues with the basic setup is overwhelming.

Similarly, templates – design wise, some are gorgeous looking, try to run a random template through Google Page Speed Insights or simply open the web console in the browser and chances, you’ll be greeted with elementary css or js errors, are great.

Slapping on what’s required to run a script is not always enough, there are too many external factors to be considered.

While I can’t rationally expect an author to take every scenario into consideration, neither can the author expect his plugin will work out of the box in any environment that meets the requirements.

That’s when support is needed. Often not even to solve a problem, but simply point out where it lies and allow the buyer to deal with it or make a choice whether to continue attempting to use it or not.

Very few plugins have admin demos. Those that do, generally sell way better. You can quite easily verify it if you have the time ;)

Until you buy the template/plugin and get to the back-end, there is a very big risk it won’t work in your environment. Sure, I can request a refund. Easy enough if I can present the product does not work for a specific reason. But plenty of authors here are quite happy to work with buyers to make it work instead of throwing their money back at them blindly. If I try on a tshirt, I know right then and there if it fits or not. The same can’t be said about a lot of products on the market place.

I never look at star reviews when buying a plugin – unless it’s no more then 1 with a big number of sales. I do look in the comments section. Any author that is not particularly happy to reply to questions, arrogant or dismissive, I simply avoid, regardless of how good their product may seem, how many sales or stars it received. Similarly, someone with 3 stars but active in the comments, I’ll take the plunge any day if I think what is offered is what I need.

And lastly, while I do not think such a long obligatory support period is healthy, truth is, that regardless of Envato’s internal policies, buyers are protected by commercial laws. The fact that you are selling on the internet, and not in a shop, does not mean it isn’t regulated. If something does not work as intended, you are legally obliged to make it work or eventually refund. Envato is registered in Australia, and bound by local consumer laws. Extended support is an option, basic, if the customer can prove you in the wrong, is a consumer right. As long as you charge for your products, you create commercial obligations that you may be asked to fullfill. They are not always rational, but it’s something any business has to deal with, individual or corporate.

28 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 2 years
  • Has collected 100+ items on Envato Market
  • Located in United Kingdom
horizonq8 says


Why would I want to refund someone since he got what he paid for?

Very true – let’s look at the situation in another real-life scenario:

A person buys a t-shirt at a clothing store and then starts harassing the shop with weird requests like:

“Why doesn’t my t-shirt have a hoody and long sleeves?”
“I like the colour, but it’s not really what i need..”
If you don’t stitch sleeves and a hoody to my t-shirt, i will write bad reviews about you all over the internet.

The refund solution proposed here would be equivalent to the shop owner telling the client:

“Here’s your money back, keep the t-shirt and get out of my face, don’t come back.

Bottom line, the shop has lost the value of 1 t-shirt, is not happy, the buyer is probably not happy either.

I still like the possiblity to force a refund, as i had a few buyers wherei would have happily given a refund rather than keep bending backwards to try and please them.. but still.. the whole concept of refunding a digital asset is wrong.

It’s like asking for a refund for a meal at the restaurant because you didn’t enjoy it.

Hardly a good example mate – I can try the tshirt and see if it fits me, try it. Don’t have to rely only on the fact that it looks good. In case of most items, there isn’t an admin demo. I have no means of knowing, if say, the WP plugin I buy, will work with my setup.

You’d need a big disclaimer on every piece of script on Envato before thinking about about blocking buyers from authors just because the asked for a refund of an item.

How would that work for product marketing? “This is a standalone script. Despite being made to work with Worpdress, we can only hope it works with the core of the CMS and the default theme. You’re on your own after the purchase”.

Probably not so well lol.

There is no need to go to extremes when searching for a solution. Middle ground is obtainable. Atm, Envato seems to only consider either alienating authors by ridiculously long forced support, or buyers, by not doing anything rational about lack of it. I’d drop the two options, and start from scratch. Someone needs to take a step back and look at the whole picture.

28 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 2 years
  • Has collected 100+ items on Envato Market
  • Located in United Kingdom
horizonq8 says


Another problem I see, a lot of longer tracks fall into what I call an indefinite loop – same sounds, chords reused with slight variation to make the piece longer. Outside of catchy electronic music, it doesn’t work so well.

Thanks for posting this, it’s always interesting to hear buyers’ insights into what they think works and what doesn’t. I always assume that the vast majority of people on the forums here are authours, which is probably why you don’t see many people asking buyers what they are looking for and why people just follow the trend of writing what is selling at that time (after all, if it’s selling, there must be demand right?).


Finding a quality background composition that’s longer then 4 minutes, doesn’t loop every 40seconds, provides enough variation to be pleasant to the ear, consistent in tone/mood while at the same time not overwhelming the visual it will be accompanying is not easy.

Yep, totally agree on this. However, the general consensus is that the format for stock music tracks needs to be consistent and maintain the ‘vibe’ or ‘energy’ without too many changes which is why many people end up repeating the structure. I agree that this means we often end up with musically dull and uninteresting tracks, but the format needs to work for people looking to edit the track into their productions and have something that fits under a voice over.


Create something that’s original, that stands out, be it a visual or audio composition. There is this strange ‘sheep’ trend

I would love to see more original and creatively adventurous music being made here, but sadly, that type of approach doesn’t seem to lead to sales here. I know, as I’ve put up tracks that fit in that category, would work well in a film or an experimental arthouse production. But the people who purchase here (or the curators who influence who is a top seller) don’t seem to agree that tracks like that deserve sales.

At the end of the day, authours want to make music that sells. If that leads to a ‘sheep mentality’ making music (which inevitably it does in most cases), then I can’t see things changing soon.

Cheers for addressing the points. And you are right, there aren’t many buyers around which I think is a great shame. It would be mutually beneficial to have a proper dialogue I think.

Exposure is definitely a massive issue with AJ – no other market place has the problem to such extend, simply because a lot of it are visuals and don’t require massive amounts of time to look through, unlike actually listening to tracks. There is very little you can do to promote your work on Envato other then within the boundaries set by the market place, however, having a YT channel, or whatever the music equivalent is, escaped my mind now, does not hurt. I find a lot of authors that sell on AJ are not present anywhere else. There is nothing stopping you guys being active on social media or any sort of other online presence even if it means a little free marketing to Envato as some are bound by exclusive agreements. You can do a lot to address exposure across the internet in general. But yes, it requires time and to an extend resources.

I enjoy the community that we have here, I do agree a lot more should be done to address issues specific to AJ – I would not be opposed to imposing a restriction that obliges buyers to give credits to certain products at the end of their projects. But that’s not a black and white situation either.

I have to say I did not realize producing out of the box pieces is not very well received by the current structure. It’s a great shame.

However, in response to this:

At the end of the day, authours want to make music that sells. If that leads to a ‘sheep mentality’ making music (which inevitably it does in most cases), then I can’t see things changing soon.

I’d say artists do that quite often.

What brought on my reply to that topic, is the observations a number of people made about low sales. I’ve looked through few of the posters portfolios just now, there is some great stuff. Already bookmarked two compilations for a future project, however, just the quick glance shows a lot of short commercial work that doesn’t sell well either.

Guess Envato is the only one that has the complete picture, and based on that should address exposure strategies. Possibly going a bit further out with their marketing, beyond the market place. Afterall, that’s the purpose of the platform, and judging by general sales, money to invest is not an issue. The question is, is there will :) More flexible licensing options would certainly not hurt either.

28 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 2 years
  • Has collected 100+ items on Envato Market
  • Located in United Kingdom
horizonq8 says

I’m glad to see changes are being thought off in regards to support as I am a buyer, a lack of post sale support is my biggest fear when purchasing anything on any of the market places except AJ. At the same time, I do realize buyers can be extremely irrational, demanding, to the point of ridiculous entitlement.

I’m not sure the issue is being looked at as a whole. It’s not just a support problem. In fact, support can be quite easily cleverly addressed by the authors themselves – many already have outstanding solution, it’s mind boggling while others don’t.

1. Dedicated support forums – 5USD for hosting and an open source SMF2 forum that can be knocked up and setup in less then couple of hours leads to peer2peer support taking the strain off the authors. 2. Clear support guidelines on Envato product page. 3. Good documentation 4. Clear support rules on the forums informing users how things work. 5. Efficient search – tho that comes with forum software, so it’s worth using a well developed one such as the one mentioned above. 6. Premium access to dedicated extra support/customization forums.

I bought around 200 items. Probably half of those require some form of support at some point (plugins, scripts, templates). Few authors have the above setup or a variation that works just brilliantly. I honestly don’t think I ever had to bother with a direct email/ticket to any of those authors because the resources are there, and chances are, someone has already had that particular problem, or simply volunteers to provide a solution.

Something to think about if you’re an author before your sales go through the roof. A ticketing system might seem attractive but it’s only beneficial to one person – open support benefits everyone. I will never understand why many authors prefer a closed ticketing platform to a forum. If you’re clear and open about the rules, the product will quite happily start to support itself to an extend – even if you’re on vacation, you can still access the forums from any device, throw a tip or two, ask others to help and point the lost soul to the right solution that is already there or simply search,m copy and paste yourself.

Now, the sales model in my opinion is a little outdated and the main culprit. Software continuously evolves, CMS change, update, things become obsolete etc. It’s irrational to expect continuous updates for a plugin or a script for an indefinite amount of time. By the same token, from a buyer’s perspective, I am not interested in paying 20 dollars only to have the script work for 6 months and then be unusable – by that time, it’s usually already an integral part of a bigger project and replacing it with something else is a massive hassle.

A lot of easily avoidable security issues are caused by businesses using freelancer or agency services that rely on templates of all sorts to create an online presence. Once the project is complete, neither the clients, nor the devs ever look back – never update, until it’s too late.

What I’d like to see is continuous development. For that to happen, there needs to be a financial incentive for the authors – everyone has families to feed and/or bills to pay. Ideally, the initial price tag would cover version 1.0 plus a short period of guaranteed support and all necessary bug fixes (say 3 months). Every major update should be paid for – be it extra features, major code updates due to api changes or things outside the author’s control, and come with the same guaranteed short term support.

I know I can’t speak for all buyers, I’m but one person using the market place for my own business and hobbies – but I would quite happily pay per major update.

Authors would have an incentive and well deserved revenues, while buyers gain basic guaranteed support while retaining the ability to decide whether to update or not.

On going premium support – sure, but is there really a large market for it? I obviously don’t have access to any Envato data – but even assuming majority of buyers are developers, not individual customers, how many do you think are willing to continuously pay for premium support for tenths of items at a time? I somehow can’t imagine it will be many – what is more likely to happen, is people choosing the lowest possible payment option to get what they are after, alternatively, continue pestering authors for answers via email, comments or these very forums. Premium support at the market place is a good idea, but it may turn out to be a logistical nightmare for Envato. considering they are barely managing their own support efficiently. It would just seem easier to revamp the sales part and provide support guidelines for authors but leave the execution to the clients.

And lastly, regardless of what the solution turns out to be, I sincerely hope some sort of filtering for the comments section will be available – I really would love to be able to search if a question was already asked and answered, instead of bothering the author about something silly, but atm, I can only use Google, and hope particular item had enough sales and comments to actually rank in g search to point me to the right page out of the 100 in the comment section.

28 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 2 years
  • Has collected 100+ items on Envato Market
  • Located in United Kingdom
horizonq8 says

From a buyers perspective – buying tracks is tricky. I buy music for 2 purposes, one is professional and one is private. The first, for company presentation background music, the second, as background music for game play videos – and I have recently realized looking back at my spendings – that AJ is very cost inefficient.

Started looking for alternatives and very quickly found quite a few. From Creative commons licensed pieces that seem just perfect for the gaming videos, to better licensed Royalty Free options outside of Envato, that allow me to reuse the same track in different projects. Yes they are slightly pricier, but they come with flexibility.

Another problem I see, a lot of longer tracks fall into what I call an indefinite loop – same sounds, chords reused with slight variation to make the piece longer. Outside of catchy electronic music, it doesn’t work so well.

Finding a quality background composition that’s longer then 4 minutes, doesn’t loop every 40seconds, provides enough variation to be pleasant to the ear, consistent in tone/mood while at the same time not overwhelming the visual it will be accompanying is not easy.

In my eyes, AJ is great for corporate and artsy/cinematic intros, logo reveals, short adverts – where it fails, is not enough good quality longer pieces/songs.

And from an individual buyer’s point of view – I only needed 1 corporate logo reveal, 1 intro for my gaming YT channel videos. Both are great, I will not be changing them any time soon as there is little point.

It may sound a little harsh, but I find there is a lot of sound on AJ and some of it is absolutely brilliant, however, there is not enough music.

There is a multitude of threads across all Envato forums complaining about sales, yet I never see any in which potential authors would maybe ask the buyers, what they are after. Create something that’s original, that stands out, be it a visual or audio composition. There is this strange ‘sheep’ trend – the moment a particular kind of item is successful in sales, give it a month, and tenths of other similar ones start to pop up everywhere. To an extend it’s good – creates a healthy competition and, at least in theory, elevates the standards, however, sooner or later, chances are market will become saturated and sales are meant to slow down for some, or even a lot of authors. Until a next wave, if it comes.

Just my 2 cents :)

28 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 2 years
  • Has collected 100+ items on Envato Market
  • Located in United Kingdom
horizonq8 says


^ Eight days ago they said that will bring those buttons back but will take some time because of “envato birthday and a lot of new stuff shipping”. Please allow me to be a bit sarcastic, bringing those buttons back is not like building space ships and shouldn’t take that long! We all know, exposure and visibility are everything! Right now seems that only Envato staff doesn’t know it. I will repeat what a fellow author said in a previous post: one-click is better that two-clicks and visible is better that hidden.

Yes but did you think why it has not been implemented yet? They (Envato) have the information whether those links were in fact crucial to generating sales or not, so bringing those links back just cause it seems logical from an AUTHOR’s point of view does not make sense. And the whole new items list was moved down the home page for a reason too, cause I think its only viewed by other authors, not buyers.. I can not imagine a scenario where the majority of buyers hover over the new items list, feeling lucky, clicking on totally random items to look for something specific.

Funny, a buyer here, few hundred items. I do exactly that. I check CC and TF systematically – I could not care less to go through each and every category opening a new page to look for what’s been added – I use the homepage section for reference to keep up to date as well as following individual authors. Since I check it on regular bases, daily if I’m on a project, I’m not fussed about a different way.

When looking for targeted search, I use Google. Simply because Envato can’t even seem to grasp the basics of ‘order by’ functionality in some specific categories without screwing with the related results, let alone having a proper, advanced filtering available.

28 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 2 years
  • Has collected 100+ items on Envato Market
  • Located in United Kingdom
horizonq8 says

There is a rather simple solution to this. Envato and author should sent make the plugin available to everyone that purchased it bundled for free. You screwed it up when first handled, you should take the responsibility for your action. So instead of a useless notification email, it should’ve been an email with a download link to a fixed version targeted at anyone that purchased any of the themes.

I’m sure both parties here could quite happily swallow few hundred potentially lost sales. Atm, it seems both would gladly see people actually buy the plugin in order to continue using it.

Not cool.

Additionally, introducing a certain level of responsibility for the template authors and the market place itself. As long as the template is available for sale, it’s not irrational to expect it’s up to date as a whole.

Envato quite happily lets dead items fill the shelves, even if complete lack of interest from the author’s is reported.

I understand it’s a business – but being upfront, honest and dealing with issues in a rational way, is unlikely to negatively affect your profits in the long run – on the contrary.

28 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 2 years
  • Has collected 100+ items on Envato Market
  • Located in United Kingdom
horizonq8 says

Yes please add credit card payments at least. I’m surprised for such a big company you don’t have the most widely accepted payment options, Visa and Mastercard (without having to go through PayPal).

You can use visa without a PP account, just click the right button on checkout lol….no need to register with them.

28 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 2 years
  • Has collected 100+ items on Envato Market
  • Located in United Kingdom
horizonq8 says

Nicely summarized – ridiculous change with the menu order.

Also, I still can’t find a way to remove individual bookmarks or figure out the reason behind doubling up on said bookmarks with favorites – not to mention the completely unnecessary wording change to bookmarks in the first place?

28 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 2 years
  • Has collected 100+ items on Envato Market
  • Located in United Kingdom
horizonq8 says

One thing Envato devs seem not to be considering, is that someone new to the market place, will have no idea what all these logos are – simple links to individual market places actually telling users what they can find on them would be a much better idea – Browse Videos, Browse Scripts, Browse Themes, Browse Audio…

Those of us that have been using the marketplaces for a while, really don’t need the blinding brand flashing right on the top, getting in the way of actually browsing the site. We know it’s in the footer, we can also quite happily spell all of them correctly in the address bar.

Think you really should sit down and re-think whom the changes are aimed at, what it really is that you are trying to achieve (assuming it’s more then cheap, aggressive marketing) and only then decide on how to achieve it in a comprehensive, noninvasive way.

Irritating your users is a little counter productive. The last few days I found myself simply searching for items via Google – if there is one that’s suitable on any of your marketplaces, hopefully I will be pointed to it, if not, there are more and more alternatives out there, I didn’t even realized that until recently.

And last, there are some serious key features missing from all of your sites that make using it more and more cumbersome as your portfolio grows. Coupled with a messed up design, general lowering of standards of what gets accepted, complete lack of consequence for authors that take items off the site the moment support questions start to overwhelm them despite assuring buyers of said support pre sales; somewhat biased top/elite author schemes that most long term Envato buyers simply learned to not pay any attention to, and it all starts to look like not such a great place to shop anymore.

I’d rather pay more for quality service straight to an author, then go through a marketplace that repeatedly chooses to ignore these bits of user feedback that require investing some money back into the business.

Truth is, both authors and buyers can do business fine without you via other means, even if at a slower rate – you on the other hand, will have no business at all without us. Paying a bit more attention to the criticism and less to the praises is generally a very good idea when it comes to feedback.

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