Posts by madlep

201 posts Marketplace Developer
  • Envato Staff
  • Envato Developer
  • New Zealand
  • Has been a member for 2-3 years
  • Bought between 1 and 9 items
madlep Dev says

Relevance in a decreasing importance should be:
  • tag(because tags are limited to 15 and author has to have a really good through out thought before sumbitting item, so tag should be the biggest boost in relevance).
  • Description ( into the description authors write all the summary about item in more details, technical aspects, information about usability, items advantages)
  • Rating ( this should be high enough)
  • Item title (this one is really not so important sometimes because many authors tend to pick creative names which would just sound good like BlacKnight; Ultima; Vertical world.. and so on. So it is really wrong thing to make the highest boost depended on item title. If i would search for some soda drink in the world food market it shouldnt give me all the drinks with word “soda” in the name, it should give me cocacola sprite fanta mountain dew. And when i am searching for some holidays in mountains it shouldnt give me mountain dew as top match. Forget the items name. Its least relevant in videohive.
  • Date of upload ( in example: two items of same tags same descriptions should be sorted newer at first older second)
  • Sales ( this one gets attention when items are sorted by sales)
  • Category (only comes as a bonus if tag or description matches)

Search result relevancy a bit trickier than saying “order by tag_match, this, this” like you would with a database for instance. But, yes, some of the boosts we’ve got in there at the moment aren’t ideal at all.

Category is probably too high, tags are probably too low. Dynamic values like ratings and sales, need to be handled carefully, as we want to balance exposing new items vs showing proven existing items.


Main thing: Separate the searche for every marketplace. As I now understand the same laws applies to all marketplaces and same search is used across all items. This is very very very very wrong. You cannot make the same search work for themeforest and grapgic river and videohive. Each marketplace has its own need and numbers.

+1 definitely this. The core logic of search does work across sites fine – all sites have the same model of what an item looks like, and the same code for handling them. But there are globally defined constants used for boosts that need to work differently in different places. This is doable, we just haven’t done it yet. Is something in the near future though. The actual UI to drive that is the more challenging part to build. That’s something else that is being worked on.


I have 60% drop in sales in compared to December and 50% in compare to months before December. So yes I blame search engine, cause only thing I sell now…SOMETIMES is my old templates I made years ago that was popular then.

The old search four months ago worked perfectly. All the boosts and relevance were really balanced. I would suggest just reverse engineer the old search. Take a look how and what made impact and importance to items in the old search and do the same as it was. Trying to invent a bycicle is a waste of time… and unfortunetly for us authors this time costs money. Already loosing 30% to 40% of whole monthly amount i should be earning and just because of search change.

Search as of four months ago basically just boosted by total sales. It was pretty naive.

Great for established authors with a strong portfolio with existing old sales, but not great for anyone else – especially new authors trying to break in. The old way was not sustainable, and would not have helped the marketplace sites in the long run at all. Either for authors or buyers.

The search changes have rebalanced what gets exposed, and when new items move up for popular search terms, other items have to move down. Not everything can be in 1st place forever.

I can understand that this sucks if you’ve been getting consistent good sales for a while off an existing body of work, and suddenly it changes. Unfortunately, the scales were tipped too far favouring a smaller group of authors for too long, and it hurts a bit when we need to rebalance it. :(

However, saying that, total sales on videohive have been up the last few months. January was particularly strong, February is looking on track to be great too. We track conversion of clickthrough from search through to item pages then through to purchase carefully, and this has improved as search changes have been deployed.

The key thing we want is that buyers find what they are after, and as many authors as possible can earn from their work. Good content sells, and that is what we’re trying to encourage, and bring to the top of search results. Exactly what is “good content” can be subjective, and we’re still figuring out the exact details of how that works. Total sales is part of it, recent sales is part of it, ratings is part of it, dozens of other metrics we don’t expose are part of it.



@KingDog, is it possible for you to post here the entire list of search related suggestions made on various threads in the past few years? I guess it would save lot of time for everyone and would be very helpful.
just searching on forum is a nightmare, imagine trying to read thousands of post trying to find suggestions that apply to the search system. :D I think KingDog has a life, doesn’t want to go into the mountains and lose years to find these suggestions.

Yup. We want to move forum search off the old search platform too. It’s a mess :mad:. We’ll get item search sorted properly first before moving onto that though. The forum search code is pretty independent of item search code, so there’s no huge urgency to get it done though.


a quick suggestion: it’s absolutely mandatory to implement some way to EXCLUDE keywords from searches. it’s surprising that there is no way to search, for example, for corporate tracks which does NOT include ukulele in the tags.

Yup. That would be good. Needs some thought on the best way for us to expose that easily though – and time to build it. Prioritisation is hard :S


yes because search is unusable – if you search for “sexy logo” you get logos which doesn’t even have anything to do with “sexy”.... I don’t understand how is that so…

Unfortunately, there aren’t that many videohive items that are relevant for “sexy logo”. It’s a problem with the content not being there, not with search not finding it. The results that come back all have a very low relevancy score, so more direct hits would place higher – they just aren’t there for that term. Could be a good market niche to get into if anyone wants to start creating new “sexy logo” items… :)

201 posts Marketplace Developer
  • Envato Staff
  • Envato Developer
  • New Zealand
  • Has been a member for 2-3 years
  • Bought between 1 and 9 items
madlep Dev says

Just deployed a couple of fixes:

  • Don’t search through misc fields on an item to match it. Search terms matched in demo URL for example were causing irrelevant items to be returned.
  • When sorting by sales/price/rating etc, apply secondary sort using the search relevancy score. This won’t really fix the problems with sales sort, as 2 items need to have exact same number of sales for the secondary sort to have an effect, but this brings in scores to be used in the near future for fixing the problem properly.
201 posts Marketplace Developer
  • Envato Staff
  • Envato Developer
  • New Zealand
  • Has been a member for 2-3 years
  • Bought between 1 and 9 items
madlep Dev says

We need marketplace specific search filters that helps deeper results. For example after keyword search, we need check boxes that helps filtering the result based on technical aspects of item. For a reason, I won’t point again what are the exact technical aspects each marketplace / category requires. It is more of a research work to be done by staff themselves who are more familiar with the items / categories / marketplace.

In case the above part being already on work, please inform – that would be great!

@KingDog, is it possible for you to post here the entire list of search related suggestions made on various threads in the past few years? I guess it would save lot of time for everyone and would be very helpful.

Yeah, this is being worked on :) Still early stage, so nothing to show yet.

201 posts Marketplace Developer
  • Envato Staff
  • Envato Developer
  • New Zealand
  • Has been a member for 2-3 years
  • Bought between 1 and 9 items
madlep Dev says

Hi madlep, try this: search “race” on VH. Sort by sales. the 1st on the list is “Vintage Opener”. No “race” words or keywords included in this example.

Ah, yes. Sorting by sales is not great, see my comment above about that. We’re probably going to change it so it removes items that don’t have a good relevancy for the search term, and then sort. At the moment it just includes everything that vaguely matches, then sorts everything by sales. The ones at the top don’t have much to do with the search term necessarily.

201 posts Marketplace Developer
  • Envato Staff
  • Envato Developer
  • New Zealand
  • Has been a member for 2-3 years
  • Bought between 1 and 9 items
madlep Dev says

Ok, I’ve gone and copy+pasted relevant feedback from other search forum threads for the last few days so we’ve got it in one place to refer to.

Here’s a quick update on what we’re working on:


Lets say we search for a ‘cinema title’: http://videohive.net/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&term=cinema+title And lets have a look at the results…. ohhhh we see a FILE AT THE TOP!!! IT MUST BE KILLER!!! a file from the 2010 which looks like crap from author who never came back again after posting this one single KILLER item which gained UP TO 7 SALES!!!!!!! It’s a shame that the author did not expect that file to be the most MATCHED FILE in ALLLL the “Cinema Titles” of video hive in 2014!!!!

Agreed. This doesn’t make much sense. A few things are going on here:

- phrase boosting on exact matches is WAY to high. This is a known issues we’ll be looking at tweaking, and probably needs to be adjusted down. So a search for “cinema title” will get a really high boost for names that match (within an allowed “slop” of 1 word difference)

- stemming doesn’t understand that “cinema” is probably related to “cinematic” and “movie”. We probably need to add a synonym so it explicitly knows that relationship. That would bring in better results higher up.

- boosts on videohive for sales and rating don’t have as much effect as they should do. They’re optimised for themeforest levels of sales (10,000s instead of 10s/100s). This needs to be normalised for the data in the results, not using a globally defined normalisation as happens at the moment.

- category name needs to be boosted less


  • Search
  • Video rollovers
  • Cart

Is all we need.

When I put myself into a buyers position i understand how important those things are….

I caught myself skipping all the items which was not showing all needed info on the image-preview… Cause there is so many of the items and I want to check all of them… Buyer simply cannot take time to actually preview all the wordpress demo live views… or all the given animations on VH,

+1. We’re working on search; video rollovers is being talked about (by a different team, not search); cart is on everyone’s wish list, but is a major project. Fingers crossed though.


@madlep I was just trying out the search and I have a quick question: If I search for “loop” right now I’ll get some Valentine’s hearts items close to the top. Imagine I want to filter out the word “hearts” from this search with a handy google-style “loop -hearts”... is something like this possible in the future?

It’s definitely technically possible. Not sure if/when it’ll get implemented. It’s a matter of juggling priorities and resources.



@madlep I was just trying out the search and I have a quick question: If I search for “loop” right now I’ll get some Valentine’s hearts items close to the top. Imagine I want to filter out the word “hearts” from this search with a handy google-style “loop -hearts”... is something like this possible in the future?

I am user of computing and internet for about 15 years. And I dont know any of those commands which are for search filtering. So I think buyer should not be required to know them to find something.

And would be nice if there would be a tutorial on how to use marketplaces and the search. New buyers are confused sometime. I did bring one of my friends here to look around and he was stunned by so many things and didnt know where to start looking. First question from him was : ” is there a tutorial video or some pop out notices on how to use marketplace ?” Well i thought what a great idea ! And said : “nope”

Will look into that. Would be a bit of work though. Ideally we’d make it simple enough a tutorial wasn’t required.


I didn´t like the new search engine. I was testing and now there are lots of files mixed up. For instance, there are some authors that put more than 3 or 4 words between commas, making these files appear in places where it shouldn´t be. Other awful point: there are projects that don´t have that specific tag and appear in a list messing the correct project tags. Wanna try? Put “race”, and you´ll see the mess. This can make the sales go down.

Can you elaborate a bit more with examples? Not sure what you mean by “put more than 3 or 4 words between commas”.

Also, checking out http://videohive.net/search?term=race&utf8=%E2%9C%93 the results seem pretty good. They don’t just get powered by tags, but description, name, category, plus a bunch of other fields.


In that specific example, my file Light Bulb comes up 15th in the listings if I search on “race” and then order by sales. The file has nothing to do with racing. It does however have the phrase “the light bulb races towards the camera” in the description. In this specific example, the problem is that there’s no way of cross-referencing good results for the tem “race” with sales. As soon as I sort by sales, any other relevance sorting goes out of the window. Then I have to scour through hundreds or thousands of results in a random manner (note: still with no video rollovers on Videohive, which after all these years never ceases to astonish me) Refining the search before sorting by sales helps of course, but without being able to decide where I search for my search terms – i.e. in keywords, descriptions or titles – it’s also of limited use.

I wont be reading the rest of the posts in this thread. But I made a few searches, and it seems that your Search is quite buggy with the synonyms.
I searched for the term “navigation” And it gave me the following results.


Please note that I have also changed the “Sort By:” to Prices. (in case you want to reproduce the error.)

Yup, sorting by sales/price is problematic at the moment. The problem is that it pulls in ALL the results that have even a vague match to the query term, then throws relevancy score out the window, and just sorts by absolute sales. Which doesn’t work.

What we’re thinking of doing here is filtering out all the results that don’t meet some threshold for search result relevancy prior to sorting by sales etc. So only the quality search results that get match get sorted, and the outliers are discarded.


Thanks Madlep. I was able to pinpoint an issue that could potentially show LOTS of unrelated items. Before the search was changed, I could search for “CCBill” and it would show 2 items. After the change to the new search, it started showing 3 items. The 3rd item that is showing doesn’t have the word CCBill in it anywhere on the item BUT, at the bottom of the page it shows my other items, and CCBill being one of them. The authors “other items” should be excluded from the search all together, don’t you agree? This would probably get rid of alot of non related items that are being returned… http://codecanyon.net/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&term=ccbill

Ugh, yeah, that’s a bug. Thanks for spotting that.

Search is including the demo URL as part of the text that gets matched on. It shouldn’t be doing that. That item has a demo URL of http://plugindistrict.com/shop/woocommerce/ccbill_payment_gateway_woocommerce/ which is where it’s coming from. Will get that fixed. Admittedly, it gets a really low relevancy score from it, but when there are only 3 items it’ll still show up.


Anothr problem with search

Is this the problem with the search engine? I think that the name of the item category is being boosted extremely high. I was checking, because sales of my current best selling file, 22 Awesome Cartoon Presets file fell off a cliff a couple of weeks ago. It was selling regularly and well and then it just stopped.

Here’s the probable reason.

Search for “cartoon”.

Note that all the files returned are in the a sub-category named “cartoons”. Take the 18th best match – It’s a file called “clock with hearts”.

It does not have the word “cartoon” in the title. It does not have the word “cartoon” in the description and it does not have the word “cartoon” in the keywords. It has 4 sales. Rank: 18

My file has “cartoon” in the title. It has “cartoon” in the keywords, it has “cartoon” several times in the description and it has 228 sales. Rank: 80

I suspect my file was previously ranking high under the search “cartoon”, now it doesn’t rank at all because it’s in the Add-ons/Presets category. It ranks high on searches for “preset”, but that’s obviously not how people were finding it.

Could it be that other users who have experienced a significant drop in sales are suffering from the same issue?

Yes ! that is absolutely a problem which has to be solved as soon as possible. What the hell is going on with the search. If i search for CLOUDS, it gives me a snow in the first top matched item http://videohive.net/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&term=clouds just because it is in the clouds category.

Yup. That’s exactly what’s happening, and it doesn’t work very well. The category description shouldn’t get as much of a boost as it does. We’ve got a fix in the works for this. Category will only count as part of the match if at least one other field (name/description etc) matches in addition.

201 posts Marketplace Developer
  • Envato Staff
  • Envato Developer
  • New Zealand
  • Has been a member for 2-3 years
  • Bought between 1 and 9 items
madlep Dev says

I’ve set up a dedicated thread for collecting all the search feedback at http://videohive.net/forums/thread/search-engine-dev-team-updates-post-feedback-here/124038

It was getting hard to follow a dozen or so threads across different sites, so this should make it easier for everyone to contribute and keep up with issues that are going on.

201 posts Marketplace Developer
  • Envato Staff
  • Envato Developer
  • New Zealand
  • Has been a member for 2-3 years
  • Bought between 1 and 9 items
madlep Dev says


It should be better to remove the relevance or best match category from the option. Leave it with sales, rates, dates, ...or even better, just remove everything, except maybe date,

it better stay random. Random like what is it now.

Maybe customer will be happy if they search for bicycle, they”ll get spaceship, if they search for spaceship, they”ll get spaghetti and so on…and nobody can complaints because its random.

Is it like that they want?
type the word rising, you’ll get almost everything related with the best match. you narrow down to sale category, you”ll get smoke with highest sale. nothing in the tag, only four times the word rises in description.. http://videohive.net/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&order_by=sales&term=rising&page=1

same goes here http://videohive.net/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&order_by=sales&term=shoe&page=1 here ;http://videohive.net/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&order_by=sales&term=bicycle&page=1 here :http://videohive.net/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&order_by=sales&term=Love&page=1

all this are in category sale which are not relevant to the word searched
201 posts Marketplace Developer
  • Envato Staff
  • Envato Developer
  • New Zealand
  • Has been a member for 2-3 years
  • Bought between 1 and 9 items
madlep Dev says


I didn´t like the search engine. I was testing and now there are lots of files mixed up. For instance, there are some authors that put more than 3 or 4 words between commas, making these files appear in places where it shouldn´t be. Other awful point: there are projects that don´t have that specific tag and appear in a list messing the correct project tags. Wanna try? Put “race”, and you´ll see the mess. This can make the sales go down.

My file Light Bulb comes up 15th for “race” when ordered by sales. It has nothing to do with racing.

Why? Because in the description I mention that the Light Bulb races towards the camera.

The problem is that as soon as you search by sales, any other kind of relevancy is completely dismissed. Since the searcher can’t manually choose to only search for files that have “race” in their keywords or title (a much stronger indicator that the file might actually be to do with racing), there’s no way you can do a cross-referenced relevance / sales search (unless you want to scour through hundreds of files).
201 posts Marketplace Developer
  • Envato Staff
  • Envato Developer
  • New Zealand
  • Has been a member for 2-3 years
  • Bought between 1 and 9 items
madlep Dev says

I’ve set up a dedicated thread for collecting all the search feedback at http://videohive.net/forums/thread/search-engine-dev-team-updates-post-feedback-here/124038

It was getting hard to follow a dozen or so threads across different sites, so this should make it easier for everyone to contribute and keep up with issues that are going on.

201 posts Marketplace Developer
  • Envato Staff
  • Envato Developer
  • New Zealand
  • Has been a member for 2-3 years
  • Bought between 1 and 9 items
madlep Dev says

@madlep…

Some of the authors over at Videohive would kind of like to have some background or some information on this:

Take a look at Cyzer’s post above. He’s quoting my post from the Sales Monitor thread over at Videohive where the talk over the past couple of weeks has been almost exclusively about absent sales. This goes well beyond the usual level of sales anxiety in this long running thread.

The concrete case I make above is that a file is ranking 18th best match under the search “cartoon”, although it has the word “cartoon” nowhere in its title, description or tags. It also has only 4 sales. My file has “cartoon” in its title, its description and its tags, and has 228 sales. It ranks 80th. It’s just not showing up under cartoon any more, and I suspect that’s why its sales have plummeted.

I picked the 18th best match, since it doesn’t feature the term cartoon at all, but there are plenty of other files up at the top that feature the term only once. If you’re interested I can send you over the chart of this file’s sales over the last 3 months where you will see a very graphical representation of the tumbleweed blowing through February’s sales. I’m sure you’ll agree that it’s unlikely to be a simple statistical anomaly. It seems to me that this boosting of the category in the best match is what’s responsible for many of the anomalies that authors have been citing.

I’m going to push to have my file moved out of the Presets category where it arguably belongs, and into cartoons, so that it continues to sell once again. Technically, it belongs in cartoons and presets, but this is not possible given the current data structure.

As an author, I can’t begin to describe how frustrating and alienating it is to finally publish a file that gets some good sales traction, only to have that scuppered after a couple of months by something as arbitrary as a change to the search algorithm. We authors are already at the mercy of the markets vagaries. To also be at the mercy of search algorithm vagaries is sometimes just too much to bear.

Let us know. :-)
by
by
by
by
by
by