mordauk, I got your point. Now, let me ask you a question. Not only to you, but to all the other that think this is a progress.
Me, as a developer, I may work with different designers. I don’t like doing the same blog theme over and over again with just a different face, but I like doing niche themes. Like, a restaurant theme, a one-page theme, a real-estate one, etc. Each one of those themes has different shortcodes. One may have a simple portfolio with not so many details while maybe another portfolio theme has lots of options and stuff related to the portfolio niche.Having one plugin globally used in all the themes simply doesn’t work. This may work for bigger companies like WooThemes, ElegantThemes that use the same principles and overall style in all the themes, but tell me how should I proceed in the above case? One plugin per theme? That’s definitely not productive and hard to maintain.
Using the same plugin over and over again actually does work exceptionally well. Just because it’s the same plugin doesn’t mean it can’t be unique.
There are many ways to turn features on/off that are provided by a plugin, and you can easily do this in your theme.
Just as an example, look at the WooCommerce category: http://themeforest.net/category/wordpress/ecommerce/woocommerce
Every one of those themes uses the exact same plugin to provide 99% of the functionality, yet each theme can still remain unique.Whether you are using WooCommerce, another GPL or commercial plugin, or your own custom plugin, you can do the same thing.
You didn’t understand my question. Let’s say I’m just starting and I’m creating a plugin for the first theme. But now I’m creating a real estate theme. And real estate themes have their own features and shortcodes, different than the first theme(that doesn’t need the real estate features). And maybe the real estate theme uses the pricing tables in a different way than the first theme. What’s to be done then? I’m talking about shortcodes here.Since we’re not plugin developers, we can’t create an extremely complex plugin to cover, for example, all the portfolio possibilities, we only create what we need for a specific theme. When a new portfolio theme comes in the discussion, we re-review what we have in the current plugin and discover we need some new features / functions / etc. So in the end we basically need a new plugin for each theme, which is extremely bad and very hard to maintain.
Read up on Pippin’s discussions regarding extensibility: http://pippinsplugins.com/lets-talk-extensible-code/
If you learn to use filters and actions, it’s actually pretty simple. Yes, you’ll have to learn some new tricks, but, and I speak from experience, it will make theme/plugin development super simple going forward.
It’s a shame that this thread has turned into a pissing match, because there are quite a few good arguments being presented on either side. On top of that, the Envato staff is doing a great job of taking everything in stride and not joining the fray.
The respondents in this thread represent some of the most popular and powerful work in the WordPress community, and it’s good to see so many bright minds come together for a discussion. On the other hand, it’s going to be impossible to get along until we all realize we’re on the same side.
Some have entered this thread intending to incite a riot, torches in hand, while have joined as riot police, waving batons around and looking for a beat down. Just once I’d like to see a WordPress related discussion that does not become a class debate, but I fear that the WordPress culture has engrained this so deeply into its nature that it might be an impossible request.
I’d like to think that discussions like this, if we let them run their course, will ultimately lead to a better and more advanced community here, which will help us all make more money. I believe that Envato has their heart in the right place, as do the authors that have helped Envato reach its current summit. At the same time, I do hope that Envato maintains its unique voice in the end, because despite being the red headed step child, a lot of people value it for that very same reason.
designedbydash saidHey, I’m all for TF providing an easier updater solution.
mordauk saidI would say it’s likely allowed, the point I’m trying to make is that it shouldn’t be on authors’ shoulders to facilitate this kind of functionality.
designedbydash saidJust saying it’s an option. If you do not want to share your plugin (which is fine), then include your own custom updater like @Astoundify mentioned. As far as I know TF does not prevent this, but if they do, it SHOULD be allowed.
I always built auto-updaters into my plugins that I sold on Code Canyon and was never told I can’t. If TF does not allow it, then that should definitely change. You are also more than welcome to place your plugins in WordPress.org, which will automatically have an update system.
...so then everyone else in the world is free to use our plugins in their own themes (or whatever they like as it’s GPL) and profit off my hard work?Good one.
In implementing these standards, they probably need to place a little bit of the burden on themselves and do exactly that.
The nice thing about using your own plugins is that you can maintain extensibility and update the theme/plugins separately. As a plugin developer, I supposed I’m biased, but I prefer to keep my code segmented.
However, on the other side, having purchased many TF themes for low-budget (and sometimes high-budget) clients, the new submission requirements make things a little more difficult for agencies that need an all-in-one solution.
For example, often times, you can buy a TF theme, customize it, and then hand it over to the client. You’ve trained them how to use the settings (that exist in one place) and use shortcodes. Usually, they barely comprehend this stuff, but after a bit of training, you can hand over the site and they can keep it going. They’ll probably never update the theme…ever.
With the new requirements, you’ll have to train them on additional plugin menus, on top of theme menus. Might need to show them how to keep things updated. Have to make sure they don’t accidentally uninstall a required plugin and wonder why their site is broken. Have to hope they don’t click the automatic update button that breaks something and then they call you to have you fix it for free, etc.
In some cases, you have to convince them to spend more money for a premium plugin, rather than use the one in the theme.
I realize this isn’t the only use case, but it’s a common one, so it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
I do agree that many TF themes are bloated and buggy as heck, and customizing them has become more and more difficult. I hope that in the long-run, Envato and TF themers can come to a fair compromise.
Nevide saidWordPress has some of the best documentation in the business, but if you have a great theme idea and need PHP help, perhaps you could partner with someone to share the profits?
This is nice idea, i am very excited to design crowd funding template but unfortunelly… I know html css and i have some ideas how to code to wordpress but i dont’t know php and i am scared that i can’t submit good wordpress theme without pro php knowledge… anyone can change my mind?