Typps saidNope, that’s not the same thing That’ll make people like GravityDept happy as he’ll be able to succeed in his agenda
Leokoo saidDon’t think you are a bad buyer at all. Its just does not make sense when you say retire the product instead of updating it for a fraction of the cost. if your OK with retiring the product, then you are fine with not buying an update
I’m good if I bought from you, and you decide to retire a theme because the sales makes it not worthwhile to update anymore. I’m sure many buyers feel the same way too We don’t expect you to update that theme for life. p/s: Some authors whom I’ve bought before are on this thread you can ask them how I am as a buyer
Updating for a price is actually similar to retiring for buyers like you that don’t want to pay for updates but the one that prefer paid update to retiring will have an option to update. And since you know that the current state is not sustainable for 99% of the themes in the long run – the paid updates seem better choice
+1, although I am pretty sure, the result will be similar.
The more i read this thread the more i realize that there’s no right or wrong, just opinions and many subjective.
Now that there there is data collected from the survey’s (i know it sounds hypocrite but i still think some questions were not asked properly) Although it’s not easy, I’d recommend A/B Testing for purchasing experience with carefully added notes. This will result in valuable data from user behavior and user experience, which actually matter, the rest is irrelevant, especially many of our opinions.This will eliminate any dose of subjectiveness from each author/buyer.
Hi, the top seller list is not given and if history is any guide, sooner or later these items will drop out of this list and their author may consider removing them. Actually the burden on them is even larger, because they have to support /update huge client base. How do you support 50000 clients if the monthly sales of the author’s portfolio drops to 100 sales? It is safe to assume that the top sellers will have longer life-cycle but It is not sustainable even for them.
Typps saidWell said, exactly!
I only have one answer for you: almost all the authors of the themes I bought have no interest in not updating their themes. They have great interest in updating their themes as it is now free lifetime updates. Do you know why? Almost all of them are in the first two rows of the front page.And they sell a lot!
So basically you are only looking out for your interest and not the community. We are discussing how all authors and buyers can benefit from an improved system. We are trying to workout solutions to common problems : how does one sustain their work in the long term without necessarily being a top seller.You are practically buying from top sellers knowing they make enough to sustain their work, so in essence you know there’s an issue but as long as it does not touch you, it’s fine. This is hugely selfish of you
If one author cannot stand what he announces, that author should not announce / have not to advertise free lifetimes updates to buyers or potential buyers. If you* cannot or want not honour the information you* are announcing and advertising about free lifetime updates, so give me my money back! Period. *you in this context means those who advertise free lifetime updates.
But as a buyer, when someone says “lifetime updates”.. what does that mean exactly, surely it’s easy to see it’s more of a selling gimmick, as it’s not realistic. What if the author get’s hit by a bus tomorrow? And who exactly needs lifetime updates any ways? A few years is all that is needed, websites usually get replaced every few years.So I don’t see why it’s a big deal if Envato had to say that support and updates is limited. Buyers are still getting their monies worth, they a get a theme that took months to design and build, and author support, and updates. You’re making it sound that like you’re getting a ripped off somehow.. but I think having a limit on support and updates is fair and reasonable.
That means free lifetime updates during the product (item) lifecycle. When the product is “dead” there is no more updates! Buyers must (or should) buy what they think it’s a good product for them.It is simple marketing concepts….
Actually the theme is “dead” for different reasons. It may be taken down by the author at any time at his will. The product lifecycle depends entirely on the author and you won’t find any “10 years or unlimited lifcycle” advertisement. Usually if the sales drop and the income can’t cover the support for the accumulated clients, the item is taken down by the author. Are you saying you are happy with this trend. Many clients complain of the current model and the idea for the changes we are discussing here is to address these issues).
What are then the TOS for?
What’s valid is the conditions in place at time of purchase, as shown by “typicality” (to use legalese) of observed policy, which historically has been never charging for support or updates here. As a buyer for example if I’ve always gotten updates and support and that’s been typical of all purchases to date (which it has), then it’s a “reasonable expectation” (another legal phrase commerce attorneys use) that the same level of service/support is provided post-purchase. Whether or not that’s in the official tos is not as binding/valid as typicality of use experienced/demonstrated at time of purchase.
graphic4444 saidSorry, but you’re throwing laws, legal sanctions and examples not even knowing the TOS (and you’re a buyer here for years ). I’m really frightened what could happen if the support was actually mandatory (as a policy on Envato) and for the future conflicts on support, because there will be, and it’s going to be a massive head-ache.
You can’t sell something under one set of rules then all of a sudden start charging for what had been included at original time of purchase…check with any legal compliance attorney. I’m sure envato would face legal and ACCC sanctions if they tried to do so (in addition to civil litigation from disgruntled buyers), unless some ‘grandfathering’ in of continued support/updates As Originally Sold/advertised that was in place at original time of purchase.
+1 for grid view as default and top pagination
Absolutely but we’ve started to question the outcome of the survey that represents the vast majority of those active members . The result are not to the liking of some fellows.
Miroslav, I get what you’re saying. Arguing without arguments is indeed pointless. I regards to dictating to “everyone else”... indeed, not nice, but it’s how the world works.
When Envato does questionnaires with 14-15 authors behind closed doors, those authors’ opinions still basically dictate for everyone else. People that have concerns, opinions and arguments should come out and express them. If they shut up, they can’t complain after.
It’s just like with political voting. If you stay at home and don’t vote, you can’t complain about the outcome. It’s never about the “majority”. It’s always about the active, involved “majority”. Who doesn’t get involved, is disqualified by society on grounds of “not caring enough” or “not being able to choose a side”.Sounds unfair but it is how the world goes. I and other authors have aligned with many other decisions before that might have not represented our views and will. In the end, everyone is here for their own interest and benefits, to serve their own purpose, not to make Envato happy or me, or doru, or you.
If nothing changes and the sales of a popular item drops – the author is left with sometimes tens of thousands clients that he must support indefinitely at a huge loss. In reality this won’t happen and the item will be deleted leaving a lot of clients in vein. I don’t think this bodes well for the market as a whole and the model is definitely not sustainable.
So I am in favour of the changes however imperfect they are
The 30% cut on your wages is way too much relative to Odesk, Elance.
I didn’t mean you in particular. The community is quite diverse and it is getting harder to satisfy everyone .
It is getting interesting. How can one (Collis) align the interest of authors with 100000 dollars monthly income and those with 1000 dollars.
I’m not Collis obviously.. However I do not see how interests of well established authors are clashing with those with a bit less sales.You can remember that it was I who started the “Open letter to Envato regarding support” thing (and probably pissed them off quite a bit ). Main concern was that these new restrictions on mandatory support and turnaround times will be harmful for new authors in the first place. Now these are addressed.