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designcrumbs says




Wow, thanks guys! I’m constantly amazed by our community. I was just drinking my morning coffee while reading what happened overnight (for me) and then I see the community “nominating” me. It was a pleasant surprise. :smitten:
I see that some of your themes are now gpl. Can you explain more why you chosen to use this license?

All of my WP themes are GPL now.

This is the license that most of the WP community backs, and I want to be part of that community. Participating in things like WordCamps is important to me. The WordPress Foundation was clear that WordPress was built 100% GPL so they want all derivatives to be GPL, and I have no problem with that.

Personally, I don’t see much difference between the split license and GPL in practice. Sure, GPL allows users to redistribute my items, but lets face it, that was being done anyway.

Ok but they were redistributed illegally and for free, you wouldn’t have a problem with someone legally buying a license of your theme and reselling it for half the price for example?

That was happening already, for $5 in fact. I prefer to roll with the punches and spend my time creating my themes than to try to fight distribution, legal or illegal.

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designcrumbs says

@designcrumbs Can you please share sales dynamics changes when it’ll be available? I’m not talking about absolute numbers – only dynamics. Maybe in month or couple of month. Thanks!

Sure thing! You might have to remind me, though ;)

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subwaymatch says

After reading the whole thread i have to say I have never seen a better example for the saying: “the way to hell is paved with good intentions”. Lets recap:

What Envato wanted to do:

  • Offer Authors the possibility to sell their themes under 100% GPL. Makes GPL Advocates and Matt Mullenweg happy. Authors can now finally speak again at WordCamps: http://wpdaily.co/org-envato/
  • Draw some attention to the fact that 100% GPL is supported now by inviting WooThemes to the marketplace
  • Grow the marketplace by adding the Woo Theme Library.

In theory that sounds all good. How it tuned out:

  • Neither a lot of authors nor customers care about or understand the 100% GPL. Lots of confusion.
  • Authors are unhappy because:
    1. there is a new big direct competitor who gets a better deal out of this than any of the authors sticking to the marketplaces for the last years
    2. this competitor gets 30 themes approved that should not have been approved for reasons already mentioned
  • WooThemes is unhappy because:
    1. They get bashed big time by half of the forum. Hardly a nice welcome.
    2. They dont sell very much on themeforest although receiveing a lot of attention. So lots of extra work with submitting themes, integrating envato api into their forum registration etc, and no extra income?
  • Envato is unhappy because:
    1. They made their authors unhapy and now have to deal with a bazillion forum threads were everyone is complaining
    2. 100% GPL was supposed to be a great deal, but is hardly acknowledged because of the introduction-fiasco of WooThemes
    3. WooThemes with their 30 Themes doesnt make any money for them. Either because customers dont like the themes (indication that the review preocess was indeed “slopy”) or because all of the sales are happening directly at the WooThemes website. Whatever the case might be, it doesnt help envato grow.

Did I miss anything? Seems like a classic lose/lose/lose situation :P

By the way I am not really thrilled either by the fact that someone who abandoned the marketplace a few years back now gets a better deal than the authors who stayed and helped growing it. I can see that its sometimes necessary to bend or break the rules but I simply dont see why this is the case here.

This pretty much sums up the debacle going on.

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egemenerd says

Kriesi +1

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doru says

I can see that its sometimes necessary to bend or break the rules but I simply dont see why this is the case here.

especially when you have a well known author (designcrumbs) who is positive in making his themes GPL. you don’t need woothemes. Launch this new license and promote him. Maybe some other authors wouldn’t like it but it is justified after all. Great quality themes, promoted for a good reason, new license! We had a big inauguration. No problem whatsoever. But that was not how it turned up.

Are we too harsh? Are we asking too much from envato?

and there is a lot of confusion indeed. I have nothing against this new license. is unpolished how is presented on the item page but that’s not such a big deal and maybe it will be fixed later.

and woothemes they get this harsh welcome for a good reason. one shouldn’t forget they put a big button on their themes that redirects themeforest buyers to their marketplace where they offer a way better deal in terms of quantity to make up for the themes quality. This is really unforgivable and it was made on purpose. There is no “mistake” involved. So the harsh welcome is justified.

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anariel7 says





Wow, thanks guys! I’m constantly amazed by our community. I was just drinking my morning coffee while reading what happened overnight (for me) and then I see the community “nominating” me. It was a pleasant surprise. :smitten:
I see that some of your themes are now gpl. Can you explain more why you chosen to use this license?

All of my WP themes are GPL now.

This is the license that most of the WP community backs, and I want to be part of that community. Participating in things like WordCamps is important to me. The WordPress Foundation was clear that WordPress was built 100% GPL so they want all derivatives to be GPL, and I have no problem with that.

Personally, I don’t see much difference between the split license and GPL in practice. Sure, GPL allows users to redistribute my items, but lets face it, that was being done anyway.

Ok but they were redistributed illegally and for free, you wouldn’t have a problem with someone legally buying a license of your theme and reselling it for half the price for example?

That was happening already, for $5 in fact. I prefer to roll with the punches and spend my time creating my themes than to try to fight distribution, legal or illegal.

+1

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VF says

After reading the whole thread i have to say I have never seen a better example for the saying: “the way to hell is paved with good intentions”. Lets recap:

We not even observed a week of sales / response from buyers after opening full GPL here. What we observed so far is some bitterness from random authors – this is not valid reflection of industry.

The worst thing we faced is Envato intentionally pulling woothemes to this game from the day 1 of opening door for GPL. Envato not even started this with the veteran authors who were more than curious. At this point, I wont blame matt or GPL but Envato for making things blur and blind. Why Envato isn’t patient enough to wait and see the trend of usual author’s contribution on full GPL thing? Why the urgency of wootheme’s inclusion with a lot of compromises? (review and item listing distortions)

Also we need to consider that an usual TF buyer doesn’t going to show interest on GPL – it is nothing different. However for a CodeCanyon WP plugin buyer, it is a gift. So better observe things from that perspective too – that’s where a bloodshed is waiting in short time. The absence of Developer license going to be simply patched by full GPL plugins.

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subwaymatch says

and woothemes they get this harsh welcome for a good reason. one shouldn’t forget they put a big button on their themes that redirects themeforest buyers to their marketplace where they offer a way better deal in terms of quantity to make up for the themes quality. This is really unforgivable and it was made on purpose. There is no “mistake” involved. So the harsh welcome is justified.

+1

Three points to add: 1) The items went through the “same review process”, yet the preview page wasn’t checked?

2) What if another author made the same “mistake”? I am almost certain the item would have been taken down immediately.

3) It seems unfair for customers to purchase a single theme here for $50$60 when they can get 3 themes for an additional $10$20 at their site. If the buyers know the original Woothemes site, I doubt they would buy it here. If they don’t and find out later (after purchasing the item), they would be pretty mad.

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subwaymatch says

Also we need to consider that an usual TF buyer doesn’t going to show interest on GPL – it is nothing different. However, for a CodeCanyon WP plugin buyer, it is a gift. So better observe things from that perspective too – that’s where a bloodshed is waiting in short time.

Great point. The impact on Codecanyon items would be far greater than TF items.

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dwhitmore says

Kriesi has summarised it all perfectly.

+1

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