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sniperatic says


I just looked into this, I may be wrong as I haven’t got all day. 4d. Sellers may not charge a surcharge for accepting PayPal as a payment method.

PayPal is an eBay company, and this restriction is quite clear.

Section 4.2 including 4d is for eBay sellers only.

It does not apply to Envato.

Erm, where do you get this idea from?

I’m guessing you are new to the credit card and payment processing industry. Payment processors will never want merchants to separate payment acceptance cost with the product cost. This is a PR thing and it’s against processors/card associations interest to have merchant separate processing cost to consumer. It makes them look “bad”. Let me know when you find a restaurant that includes “Payment Surcharges” in their receipt.

I just breifly googled it. It’s actually quite common in the UK for smaller shops and chains to add a surcharge for card purchases if the purchase is below a certain amount.

4d is for eBay sellers only. I believe there is a 4.6 section though that re-iterates the rule for others.

N.B. Imo this conversation is getting a bit ridiculous, and until input from Envato you will never take clarification from anyone on this matter.

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sevenspark Moderator says

Hi guys,

As others have stated, this is not a PayPal surcharge, it is a Buy Now surcharge, as stated in the How do I Pay for Items Knowledgebase Article.

PayPal TOS section 4.6 states:

4.6 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.

What this means is that you can’t charge a surcharge specifically for accepting PayPal as a payment method. It is not a blanket ban on surcharges of all types just because PayPal happens to be the payment processor (an outside-of-Envato example might be a ticket handling fee, which is charged regardless of payment type).

In Envato’s case, the $2 surcharge is not a “fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method”. If it were, this fee would also be charged when using “Make a Deposit”. This is displayed visually below:

If this were a surcharge for PayPal, both items in the “PayPal” column would be $2.

Rather, this is a “handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services”. There is a $2 handling fee for using Buy it Now rather than Make a Deposit.

If you’re looking for an official reply from Envato, I would recommend contacting Envato Support. Right now this is just community members chatting in a forum.

While I understand this is a hot topic for some, I’d ask that everyone remain civil in this discussion. There have been some insults hurled around that are really unnecessary and counterproductive to a serious discussion.

Hope that helps to clarify,

Chris

Please note that I am not Envato staff.

EDIT: Just to add, this response is not trying to pass judgment on whether the $2 surcharge is necessarily “right” or “wrong”, but is solely to address that it is not against the PayPal TOS (as I think this has muddled the debate a bit). I stand by my earlier statement about how I think we could improve this system, and would love to see Envato implement those changes (or something similar)

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familychoice says

Giving potential purchasers of a product that’s being advertised for $5 the option to either pay $7, or deposit $20 and be left with $15 in an account they may actually never use isn’t, however anyone paints the picture, a friendly way of trading.

The fairest way would be to at least give customers the option to add their own specified amount into their account instead of always having odd amounts left over each time they buy something.

I’ve seen responses stating that the ‘buy now’ price is the actual price and you’re getting a $2 discount if you buy credits, but that argument looks a bit weak when the promoted price is actually the discounted version.

Paying the surcharge or ‘block’ credit payments aren’t deal breakers, but as a regular customer I do find them irritating and inflexible, and if a similar product was being sold elsewhere I’d probably buy there instead.

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pixelbat says

Can we all agree that at least it is a surcharge? No matter how you want to paint it, it is a surcharge. Some say it is for using Paypal, some say it is for buy it now, but it is a surcharge… right?

Consider for a moment that the surcharge is there to coax you into a certain buying model. It’s ideal for them to get you to buy credits, use what credits you need, and let the remaining sit in their bank collecting interest until the next time you need to use them.

If you understand this, then you need to realize surcharges are there as a hurdle or means to recoup expenses associated with dealing with the processor. In this case it could be both, but it most definitely is a hurdle, to filter the buyers through a certain door. Paypal would not accept this because for some people, they find this as a turn off, and they simply won’t go through either door. Had that surcharge not been there, Paypal would have processed the sale, gotten their cut, and been happy. This surcharge impedes Paypal’s business. That is what the surcharge policy is there for, to make sure Paypal customers have an easy and painless method of buying, and not have to deal with this kind of BS when making a payment on the internet. It is a consistency policy, they want your buying experience to be identical no matter where you use their services.

High content providers, you can spin this however you want, it’s still a surcharge, I’m sorry you can’t see it from the end user perspective, but this is probably because you’ve all made at least one lobster dinner off it.

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WebSmacker says

It comes down to cash flow. Envato prefers you to deposit money because what you don’t use can sit in the bank and earn interest. This is actually in their revenue model, earning interest of deposited money.

I think it’s a brilliant model and it is working well so far. I don’t see anything wrong with it. They offer a discount, and what you don’t use they get some return on it.

One thing I don’t like or agree with is the fact that if you don’t use the money that you deposited in 1 year, you lose it. That part is kind of shady to me…

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jonathan01 says

Any extra fee placed on top is a surcharge. Period.

Now, it’s not hard to remove you add a few dollars to every item – done.

Why do this?

Because potential buyers who see an ‘extra’ charge think they are having to pay more and a feeling of ‘getting ripped-off’. If you build in the extra charge to start with, buyers have no idea.

Real world example = McDonalds – image if they said 85 cents for the drink, you want a straw and napkin also.. oh that will be an extra 14 cents please – no they just charge 99 cents from the start – therefore the buyer has no idea it’s ‘built-in’.

As for storing peoples money in your bank without security is a HUGE risk and not sure about the legal consequences if said company was to go bust – class action law suit? Possibly so… not sure. If this is a business model, it’s the worse I ever heard of :) As I don’t work at Envato I can’t comment on this, I’m just speaking generally.

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Australia says

Exactly what I stated yesterday, two tier pricing.

In other words:

Hey USER,

Pay now with Paypal for $7.00 or alternatively, by adding money to your account and using those funds, we will give you $2.00 discount on everything you buy !!

Its a win win, you get the best scripts, for less !

End of bloody story, its just semantics.

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WebSmacker says

Exactly what I stated yesterday, two tier pricing.

In other words:

Hey USER,

Pay now with Paypal for $7.00 or alternatively, by adding money to your account and using those funds, we will give you $2.00 discount on everything you buy !!

Its a win win, you get the best scripts, for less !

End of bloody story, its just semantics.

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dtbaker Moderator says

One thing I don’t like or agree with is the fact that if you don’t use the money that you deposited in 1 year, you lose it. That part is kind of shady to me…

Someone explained it was similar to why “gift cards” at shops have an expirey date. It’s an accounting issue, funds cannot just sit there forever unused. Also we have the option of extending expiring credit, so when you receive the “your funds are expiring” email you can email back and extend the expiry date. Kinda cool of them.

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VF says

If you understand this, then you need to realize surcharges are there as a hurdle or means to recoup expenses associated with dealing with the processor. In this case it could be both, but it most definitely is a hurdle, to filter the buyers through a certain door. Paypal would not accept this because for some people, they find this as a turn off, and they simply won’t go through either door.

I can understand this point. This is exactly why some of you buyers point this issue from PayPal terms point of view. However, consider about the fact that the bulk PayPal users like this marketplaces are definitely under the radar of PayPal staff and they see this system as not something violating their terms. It is obvious that the surcharge sits as an alternative for Deposit and not as a punishment for using PayPal itself. There is no violation as long as PayPal is available for both Deposit and buy Now – that’s what something PayPal terms focused on.

However, the other complaints are understandable as the very combination of “Deposit + Buy Now” is not sufficient for all kind of buyers; Envato should consider allowing little more flexibility for buyers. The fraction of losses could be fine for buyers but the impact that leaves on buyer’s mind is an issue to be taken care.

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