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tsafi says

MB . I doesn’t matter if js or html5 are so bad in our eye`s .

Bottom line the number 1 market grow today is the mobile world, and if you been ignore from this market you won’t hold there as a flasher… no IOS support, last flash version on android OS ,window 8 for mobile will probably won’t support flash.

So the only way you will be able to bring web flash content is via air/flex and none of us are that crazy going this way, and the rest of your argument are not been relevant.

No flash for mobile no flash at all .

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MBMedia says

MB . I doesn’t matter if js or html5 are so bad in our eye`s .

Bottom line the number 1 market grow today is the mobile world, and if you been ignore from this market you won’t hold there as a flasher… no IOS support, last flash version on android OS ,window 8 for mobile will probably won’t support flash.

So the only way you will be able to bring web flash content is via air/flex and none of us are that crazy going this way, and the rest of your argument are not been relevant.

No flash for mobile no flash at all .

That’s the same argument I’ve been making for months, but with a different end result:

step 1 is always look at your project in an honest light to see if it needs flash rendering. And if flash CS6 can output some better HTML5 stuff then that makes more projects fall into this category where you just output HTML5 if the browser can handle the complexity of the project.

step 2 is that if it needs flash instead of telling your client how to dumb down the project and make it not what they really want: you progressively enhance so that mobile/non-flash viewers see the simplified version and anyone with the flash plugin sees the better one. I have had zero client complaints on this, in fact I’ve had clients tell me they chose me over cheaper bids because I’d do this. It’s completely win-win bud, and flash CS6 outputting HTML5 only makes flash programmers more capable of this approach because now they can build the simplified mobile version in the language/UI they know as well. :)

EDIT : this is a bit off topic, but you know that IE10 metro has meta-tags that you can put in where it will move the user over to the full featured plug-in capable browser to view the website, right?

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MBMedia says

Also, I should add that you may have mis-read what I was trying to get at. I was saying the Flash CS6 outputting HTML5 /JS would essentially make compiled “JS” written from AS3 a more capable and more appealing way to write javascript that would make it a far more useful way to write large programs, because in it’s current non-OOP state javascript is holding browser rendering back.

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tsafi says

EDIT : this is a bit off topic, but you know that IE10 metro has meta-tags that you can put in where it will move the user over to the full featured plug-in capable browser to view the website, right?
I don’t know if IE10 will be out before window 8 or with window 8 . I do know base on what Microsoft say in window 8 , there browser won’t support flash you will have to enable it or do some fall back to except flash, it’s more like if you have window 7 64 bit you can have the option use of 32 bit. But I can’t tell in 100 % how it will be .

Bottom line like many here we do less and less flash work

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MBMedia says

I don’t know if IE10 will be out before window 8 or with window 8 . I do know base on what Microsoft say in window 8 , there browser won’t support flash you will have to enable it or do some fall back to except flash, it’s more like if you have window 7 64 bit you can have the option use of 32 bit. But I can’t tell in 100 % how it will be .

That’s not the full situation. There will be 2 browsers in windows 8, IE10 normal and IE10 metro. IE10 metro looks like a mobile browser in interface even, IE10 normal looks like firefox with an IE logo slapped on it, and has full everything plug-in support just like chrome or FF. IE10 metro is the default browser if someone just clicks on some app that will automatically open up an internet page, but even then meta tags you can include in your markup allow the page to prompt to automatically open in the normal IE10 browser and display just like chrome or FF instead.


Bottom line like many here we do less and less flash work

That’s because people like me that woo the client with dreams of animated flash desktop sites that still have simple and ubiquitously working mobile backups are stealing all your work :)

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tsafi says

Well I didn’t know that this fully about IE10 metro ,I try to avoid from IE as much asi i can .

But you know privet clients was never issue for me ,cos` it was never my bread, but the business community just drift away from the flash platform .

At the end MB you are going to be Sofer Stam…now you ask yourself what is hell is Sofer Stam? Well they are very small group around the globe they master in font topography and they write all the bible by hand , it’s a master work ,it take them long time to make but there so few of them and they charge tons of money on the making :P

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MBMedia says

At the end MB you are going to be Sofer Stam…now you ask yourself what is hell is Sofer Stam? Well they are very small group around the globe they master in font topography and they write all the bible by hand , it’s a master work ,it take them long time to make but there so few of them and they charge tons of money on the making :P

Hehe, maybe. But the thing is: I actually don’t care what renders my programs.

1) I care that the workflow is OOP enough that I can write code/frameworks I can re-use to save time and therefore build quick projects cheaper/better after spending a little initial time on a framework. Right now in JS when I write frameworks I’m always surprised at how little they end up applying to. I write a tweening engine, yet the next project I make needs “properties” set with functions because of a lack of getters/setters and I have to write a new tweening engine…it drives up cost. Right now with the flash frameworks I have I can build a completely custom designed site that is mobile friendly and has a CMS in a matter of a couple hours for a client, all because of how OOP capable flash is, and it gives me an enormous time/price benefit. CS6 ’s “compliling” to javascript may open new avenues where I can bring those same OOP abilities to HTML5 rendered projects, and if so I’ll be all over that when the project allows as well.

2) And then I care that the end product is the best it can be in as many mediums as can be. Right now when I build an HTML5 website it doesn’t work in as many browsers, it’s slower than the flash product on the browsers it does work on, and unless it’s really basic: it actually breaks most mobiles. So in the end I pick the rendering method that is the most capable and the most cross-device/browser: right now that’s flash desktop + simple HTML mobile for high end graphic/animation intense sites – responsive HTML /jQuery for less intense basic sites. And that’s exactly what I do. But I find that anyone can build the less intense sites, I’m either the cheaper bid or I’m not….sometimes I win sometimes I lose. But the graphically intense sites where I use flash and progressive enhancement…I own that category because I’m putting out websites more interactive AND more accessible than HTML5 .

I doubt a $50 android will ever render as fast as a $1000 desktop: as one progresses so does the other…so I’ll still be providing simpler backup versions for mobiles regardless of the tech I use for desktop for a long time to come, so they don’t figure into which tech I use for the desktop version. And for desktop flash still beats out HTML5 in both workflow and end product…so picking it for the desktop version would make for a more expensive, less capable, and less accessible medium for my clients. That’s not ok with me just in the name of standards…even though believe it or not I like the standards (though I believe there always has to be an outside force pushing past the standards so that they don’t stagnate, that’s flash right now). The moment those situations are reversed flash won’t be ok with me. But they’re not reversed, they are what they are, and right now I’m alone in a progressive enhancement niche starving for cool & accessible websites. Won’t you be my neighbor? :)

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iamthwee says

Back to the original topic…

I suspect anyway the js code that flash spits out will be some convoluted, bastardized mess no doubt.

Making it practically impossible to work with, so I’m not entirely sure what the benefit would be, other than making animations easier to code… (obviously because it was originally made in flash.)

MB, I admire your standpoint and your enthusiasm… but I guess the lack of work out there kinda speaks for itself.

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MBMedia says

MB, I admire your standpoint and your enthusiasm… but I guess the lack of work out there kinda speaks for itself.

That’s actually the point I’m trying to make. If you make flash websites that aren’t mobile capable, then that’s why you see an enormous lack of work in the area of flash, because no one wants to use you. People want mobile capable websites and if you’re not putting that out then you don’t get customers.

That’s why I’m trying to teach 2 things:

1) discernment for not using flash everywhere: learn every tech, use it in it’s place. Once developers start making good choices on the techs they use, then the right to choose which techs you use will start to be yours again because you don’t have to be baby-sat on the subject. Don’t build a fully featured WP type blog in flash. Don’t make a non-animated website in flash. etc. If it offers an advantage (other than you know flash and don’t know HTML5 …that’s not an advantage) then use flash. Otherwise, don’t.

2) when you choose flash: progressively enhance, because otherwise you’re like a guy selling cookies with poop on them, wondering why no one wants cookies! The cookie market has crashed! No…people love cookies…you just rubbed poop on them. But from that person’s perspective it will seem like the whole darn world is anti-cookie, wouldn’t it? :)

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tsafi says

That’s actually the point I’m trying to make. If you make flash websites that aren’t mobile capable, then that’s why you see an enormous lack of work in the area of flash, because no one wants to use you. People want mobile capable websites and if you’re not putting
Sorry again man if you make a flash website with great look and user experience then back it up with HTML just in the name of mobile capable, this have no logic in my opinion for the ordinary client ,its simple way to much work on the modification from client end perspective
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