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loveetc says

I’ve mentioned this to Japh, but one of the best things Envato could do along with these new regulations is to provide a list of “standard plugins” that all themes should consider supporting.

Sure, why not just give a standard theme like TwentyEleven + 4-5 plugins, and ask authors to just change colors in it? Because you are not allowed to add anything else in it? :sarcasm:

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lollum says



Can someone from the TF staff please answer my question? Are page builders allowed? Yes or not?
Sorry! I have asked Siddharth to respond to this particular question, so I imagine he’ll reply soon.

Regarding page builders, we don’t have anything concrete. I’ll talk to a few more people and post back soon.

Additionally, the grace period in the original post has now been extended by another five weeks to a full eight weeks.

Regardin page builders.. An example: my framework is based on Bootstrap and a 1/4 column in my page builder is wrapped by a “span3”.

What happens if someone tries to use my page builder in a skeleton theme?

How can I make this functionality portable? No CSS frameworks in my page builder? Impossible!

Ok, I can put all my framework functions in a plugin, but I can’t support other themes. Also, I don’t have to do this. I’m selling a theme, not a plugin.

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Net-Labs says

Shortcodes, contact forms, SEO options should never be included in a theme. Your absolutely crazy if you do that! But unfortunately a lot of ThemeForest authors do this because they think it will help sell themes, but in the end your only making the theme BLOATED with options, making it harder for you to update all the themes as there is a ton of code and making it harder for customers to switch themes as the shortcodes, options are inside of the theme and not apart of a plugin.

I’m so tired of this rethoric I want to poop my pants.

So lets take a look at the real facts.

If you do not want bloat do not add any functionality. do not add any plugins, or deal with bloat. There’s no way around.

I do not write a contact form because i think that it will sell my theme i write it for the following reasons:

1. Seamless integration. Plugins looks like a Porche fixed with Beetle parts. it’s ugly nobody wants ugly.

2.Saves me time because I do not have to spend the time supporting all the plugins that’s out there, and do not enqueue javascript correctly and and and …....... I code once and support rarely.

3. a lot of plugin authors support is notoriously absent and if a client does not get support from the authors they will come to me and send me 100 mails for assistance, and get angry if i give them the run around. Writing my own functionality means that i will save on time. save on support and have happy customers.

4. A lot of the customers do not choose the plugins that they are getting, but the developers that they appointed chose that. 3 years from buying the theme the customers clicks update on a plugin and all sorts of hell is loose and the developers do not fix their stuff they send the customer to the theme author. Writing my own code fixes all of that.

5. Thinking that the customer will not try different plugins in his lifetime is a crazy idea, and there’s absolutely zero convergence between plugins, so the “loose my functionality if i change themes” is stupid. They loose it anyhow when they try a new plugin

I can go on forever.

In short I code to apply functionality and to avoid support. Both valid reasons to me.

AJ

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lollum says

I’m so tired of this rethoric I want to poop my pants.

+1

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OriginalEXE says

If we could see a list of authors that were contacted regarding this new change to provide feedback, that would be great, although it’s pretty obvious who was contacted.

I can’t believe how Envato itself can not realize that we are not a wp.org directory and this can’t work. We are selling whole website packages here, for approx. $50 user is getting a full blown solution for his needs, if he wants a lifetime compatibility he will hire a company to work on his website.

Do you seriously believe that some freely available portfolio plugins can do what most of the top selling themes now offer?

And why exactly should I provide my functionality (I am not talking about cpt content here) if user switches themes? I’m all about sharing but we are earning our living here and this is a competition. If I am able to create an awesome user experience with my page builder, awesome meta/theme options etc. why should I give that away to someone who will switch theme to some other author? If you want my features, buy my themes.

And if a day comes when some user switches his old theme for mine, who do you think will get a 1 star for his shortocodes not working/looking bad?

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ThemesDepot says

If I am able to create an awesome user experience with my page builder, awesome meta/theme options etc. why should I give that away to someone who will switch theme to some other author? If you want my features, buy my themes. And if a day comes when some user switches his old theme for mine, who do you think will get a 1 star for his shortocdes not working/looking bad?

+1

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bitfade says

let’s build our themes using 4902344 free plugins, it’s not like buyers will get mad when they hit bugs or any of them breaks due to a wp update and theme no longer works. I mean, they will surely understand the situation and wait for the original free plugin author to fix the issue.

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UXbarn says

The point that everyone who has said this is missing that NO, you should not be creating your own custom plugins for all of your short codes, you should be relying on freely available plugins that are already released.

For example, if you want to support columns in your theme, simply use the Grid Columns plugin from Justin Tadlock: http://justintadlock.com/archives/2012/10/03/grid-columns-wordpress-plugin

...

There is zero reason (absolutely zero) for any theme to ever build in their own contact form, or their own column short codes.

May I ask why it is zero reason? I think it can be applied to some cases, but not all.

It is understandable for the contact form or some other page elements but I’m not sure about the column stuff (and perhaps some other features that are “unique” for each theme). For example, what if the structure of the theme is quite complicated by the creative design and needs some specific ways to create such layout and features. Can all the column plugins out there solve this problem? What if they can’t? (Note that I haven’t tried all plugins, it’s just an example.)

Another example might be about portfolio showcase. What if theme author wants to add some “selling points” to the portfolio in the theme. Surely no free plugins out there can serve his unique requirement. What to do then?

What do you suggest in these situations?

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mordauk says


I’ve mentioned this to Japh, but one of the best things Envato could do along with these new regulations is to provide a list of “standard plugins” that all themes should consider supporting.
Sure, why not just give a standard theme like TwentyEleven + 4-5 plugins, and ask authors to just change colors in it? Because you are not allowed to add anything else in it? :sarcasm:

I don’t mean for Envato to create these standard plugins, I mean for Envato to list a set of recommended plugins.

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Kriesi says

Correct me if I am wrong (didn’t read the whole thread) but I think the point of using “shortcode plugins” is to prevent the “lock in” effect you get if you use a theme and then want to switch and none of your shortcodes work any longer.

Therefore it should be sufficient to provide a small self written plugin for your customers so they can switch theme whenever they want and keep their shortcodes working. Thats what I plan to do.

I definitely wouldn’t use a public repository plugin for my shortcodes. (And to be honest: if envato wants to enforce these requirements to existing themes that wouldnt work anyways, since all these plugins use different shortcodes than the ones used in themeforest themes. Implementing them now would break all existing shortcodes which is probably not the best idea ;D )

In all honesty I think Envato did a rather mediocre job with this requirements (most of them are good but a lot of them lack examples or clarification).

A handfull Elite Authors were pitched with these requirements months back. I at least provided extensive feedback and I think none of my suggestions or clarifications found their way into this draft. I am not surprised about this 18 page discussion :P

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