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Cubell says

You guys do understand that a theme is precisely a skin, right?

It’s been bastardized into what’s it’s become by theme authors that want to cram every feature under the sun into the theme. That was not the original nor the current intention of a WordPress theme.

The theme is supposed to be the design layer of the site. The skin. They could have just as easily called them skins but they went with the term theme. Why do you think plugins exist?

Authors are the second most valuable and important asset for Envato right after Buyers, if we stop making themes, they having nothing to sell and make no money.

Buyers always come first and authors second. And please don’t state that Envato have made authors money. Authors make the money from creating products that buyers want.

Don’t you agree thatt YES themes are MEANT to be skins and plugins provide functionality. HOWEVER, Themeforest themes have become popular and made Envato a LOT of money because they are not JUST skins, they provide a full-solution website. You may disagree with the idea of that and say it’s cheapened everything, etc, but that is the REALITY of the market is exactly that and what has made Themeforest what it is today, and trying to pull it back so themes are more “skins” and less “feature-full” is business suicide. Try to forget you are a plugin developer for a second and imagine you are one of the hundreds of thousands of Themeforest buyers and see how you feel about the change.

Once again, I agree with all the changes. Code should be clean, standard and as minimal as possible. However, making themes have less exclusive features built-in is a very silly idea.

Why is it even needed? Buyers have never complained (they love and expect it), authors have never complained, and Envato’s bank account is certainly not complaining.

All for the sake of standard semantics?

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QODE says

The poor decisions will be noticed in a few months, when the buyers will no longer be interested in buying crap skins anymore and will look for other shops where they get a full solution without headaches and lots of time wasted on installing and achieving the demo. Or authors start moving to other markets when they’ll notice the drop in sales.

Envato requesting all kind of changes to us, yet when we request something, we get nothing. Yeah, that’s correct. Searchable comments? Nah, too much work for that. Responsive website? Noooo, who needs that. The search function of both the website and the forums are A BIG JOKE.

I’ve had just one request in the last year for Envato, to change my withdrawal date so I can get my money on time because, you know, it’s summer, holidays and stuff, all of us need money. But guess what, the programmers are just too lazy to use half an hour for an author that generated over 80k profit for Envato in like 11 months.

Quoted from envato.com “A Community Focused Company.”. What a joke. You don’t give a damn about the community, the authors, the buyers or anyone, you modify the rules based on whatever other blogs say about you and the themes here. Just because some of the authors don’t have any idea about most of the coding rules and the code they put inside their themes, it doesn’t mean all of us are newbies and don’t know how to code.

Sorry if I’m rude, but that’s the obvious truth. And it’s not me that says it, all these 36 pages say it. If authors like ThemeFusion, Kriesi say you didn’t really give a damn about their opinions, then who do you care about? I mean, buyers obviously don’t have any position in this, authors not a chance, since there were lots of elite guys complaining about the new rules…When will you come and make a public thread and ask the community and the authors about the changes? And do changes based on what they say? Most likely never.

+1

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mordauk says


You guys do understand that a theme is precisely a skin, right?

It’s been bastardized into what’s it’s become by theme authors that want to cram every feature under the sun into the theme. That was not the original nor the current intention of a WordPress theme.

The theme is supposed to be the design layer of the site. The skin. They could have just as easily called them skins but they went with the term theme. Why do you think plugins exist?
You can claim to have a lot of experience, but you aren’t showing much business nous.

Hehe, sorry to laugh, but Carl Hancock has probably made more money on Gravity Forms that the top 20 authors combined, perhaps more. No one can claim he doesn’t know business.

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kriskorn says

...

I keep seeing that people want cheap complete websites, or agencies want to provide cheap complete websites to their clients. I keep seeing cheap. Cheap. Cheap. You, the ThemeForest authors, are the people that have created this culture of cheap, cheap, cheap. And it’s results in code that matches the price: cheap.
This is just plain ignorant… Envato is The One who sets prices and there have been numerous discussions on prices being too low or too high in certain cases. You blame authors, when we have nothing to do with it.


...

Do you guys even realize what theme authors with this attitude have done to Envato’s reputation in the overall WordPress community? People like Japh and Collis do.

Do you realize that Japh and Collis have done that to Envato’s reputation themselves and you are still blaming the authors ? Authors have followed the guidelines that Envato has set.
It is like a parent(Envato) raising a child(author) and you are blaming the little child that he has done wrong, but in fact the parent has told him/her to do so. Now when the child has grown up and also helped the parent grow, the parent suddenly wants to punish the child for bad behavior, which is caused by bad parenting.

This is just plain stupid, isn’t it ? Next time think a little bit when you start bashing people who have nothing to do with the decisions that Envato has made. The authors here are now only trying to protect Envato for not making the worst decision in their history. I am all for the best practices and changes, but when they want to change the core concept of this marketplace, then they will sink like the Titanic.

All the best,
Kris
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ThemeFusion says

i am out of this thread as this is no longer going towards the productive way. Better invest time into thinking how to do the things the right way within envato rules for both envato and the buyers. Here we go :)

- Muhammad

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designedbydash says

“since when do the plugin developers make rules for us, the theme developers?”. Time to get off your high horse and gain a little humility. Plugin developers don’t make rules for theme developers and theme developers don’t make rules for plugin developers. The community builds rules and guidelines for everyone.

“The commuity” being the WordPress community?

Envato isn’t bound to the WordPress community’s rules, nor do they have any obligation (as far as I am aware) to adhere to the community guidelines set out by the WordPress community.

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carlhancock says

Do you have any data to show that this will work and buyers suddenly want to educate themselves and are willing to spend a lot more time on setting those products up ?

You shouldn’t need data to know that you should provide products to your customers that are built using best practices and do things the right way.


They will be still looking for a “complete solution”, which is wrong, I know, but you have advertised yourselves so for about 5 years, they don’t expect anything less. A good in-house support channel and a lot more workers could ease the pain, but this wouldn’t be the case.

Customers always think they want a “complete solution” until they realize what a mistake they’ve made because that “complete solution” doesn’t work with plugins X, Y and Z because it’s poorly built. Then they quickly realize the errors of their way when they are educated by developers that know what they are doing.

Once they are educated they avoid the source of that “complete solution” and it stains it’s reputation. That reputation is Envato and ThemeForest, not the theme author as these users don’t distinguish between them. They know they purchased it from ThemeForest and that’s who they then have a bad opinion of. We encounter this regularly.

A customer is going to want a theme that does their laundry, makes them coffee in the morning and mows their lawn. That doesn’t mean you should give it to them. You’ve admitted that it’s wrong, so you know it’s wrong. Envato knows it’s wrong. Everyone that gets best practices knows it’s wrong. So it’s time to do something about it.

Will it hurt? Sure. But ultimately everyone will be better off because of it. ThemeForest. The theme authors. And above all and most importantly the customers. It may not appear that way initially, but it will most certainly be a positive thing down the road.


In conclusion, I think that everything should be built correctly and I am happy that there are people like Justin, Carl, Pippin who try to educate me/us and I have learned a lot from them and I know where to strive, but on this marketplace this just won’t work.

Thanks, unlike many others on here i’m glad that you do at least appreciate and listen to the input that people like myself, Justin and Pippin provide.

The only reason I am replying to posts on this thread is to help give advice that will benefit everyone involved (ThemeForest, theme authors and customers). I don’t sell on ThemeForest nor do I sell on CodeCanyon.

What I do know about is how to build a highly successful product and how to do so without the advantages a marketplace like ThemeForest provides. The advantage that ThemeForest provides theme authors is huge and some of these authors should more appreciation for Envato enabling many of them to make a living from their marketplaces.

Instead of fighting things how about this… TRUST ENVATO. They wouldn’t be where they are today by making bad decisions. Envato is implementing changes that are going to better the industry as a whole.

These changes can be implemented on a marketplace like ThemeForest and be successful. But the theme authors that don’t embrace it will not be.

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mad_dog says

We’re out of this thread as this is no longer going towards the productive way. Better invest time into thinking how to do the things the right way within envato rules for both envato and the buyers. Here we go :) - Muhammad

Yeap, it is time to sit, think and start working :dead:

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Cubell says

Hehe, sorry to laugh, but Carl Hancock has probably made more money on Gravity Forms that the top 20 authors combined, perhaps more. No one can claim he doesn’t know business.

I didn’t say he doesn’t know business, I am saying he isn’t showing much business nous from a buyer’s perspective. However, I have edited and reworded it better, as it’s not about that, it’s about the subject at hand.

Also, you are a plugin developer, but if you were a buyer (the most important person in all of this) would you see it as a positive or negative change that themes have less built-in features and need free external plugins to be installed to work as the demo shows?

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organicbee says


can we also add a SSL check for all external scripts/styles loaded, Ive had some cases where assets fail because of SSL.
function prefix_styles(){
//Check if is ssl
$schema = is_ssl() ? 'https://' : 'http://'; 
wp_register_style( 'cw-font', $schema . 'fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=Noto+Sans:400,700,400italic' , array(), 1.0 , false  );    
}

Perhaps it would make more sense for these assets to be loaded without the protocol so they adopt whatever the current protocol is? Thoughts?

Ive never tried to load it without protocol so not sure it messes with anything(or breaks). I’ll play around with a few different common used external scripts

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