The simplest solution I see is for reversals to be split 50/50. If reversals are here to stay, for the time being, then at least Envato paying 50% of each reversal would be more fair to the author, but while also having authors share the load.
At least until a better solution presents itself.
el-paranoik saidI think this is some kind of social engineering:
As I uderstood this system, a buyer purchases an item, in some ways he doesn’t need it or like it and he gets his money back? But the item stays on his pc. So he gets the item for free? If I’m wrong correct me, I don’t really know how does this whole system works.
- Buy it
- Complain about its quality
- Get your money back
- Keep your files
- Smoke a cigarette like a boss
- Sold between 250 000 and 1 000 000 dollars
- Has been a member for 7-8 years
- Author had a File in an Envato Bundle
- Most Wanted Bounty Winner
- Interviewed on the Envato Notes blog
- Author was Featured
- Author has had an Item Featured
- South Africa
Never had a sales reversal… is it perhaps not linked to incorrect item descriptions or not clearly stating what is included in the file ie “false advertising” ? seems like the most common reason why buyers would want a refund IMO
You must not have read the post, or this thread. The reversals they are talking about are ones that are fraudulent transactions via stolen credit card for example.Since they are manually updating accounts with these reversals, it’s possible they don’t do them for you because you are an elite author and bring them much more money.
I just read the title Well I think transactions with stolen credit cards are rare… they will happen.. but the majority of reversals are for other reasons which may be partly the authors doing. Also Envato doesn’t take preference on reversals based on elite status.. that’s a silly comment to make
What I’m saying is this: If the author CLEARLY states what is in the item, and doesn’t fabricate any features, or leave out important things buyers should know… then the buyer has ZERO grounds to issue a sales reversal if they’re not happy with their product. If Envato has issued a refund, then there must be something misleading in the description or something critically broken with the authors item. Credit card fraud is a different story though.
I agree to split 50/50 ONLY if
1. item not as described (must be discussed with author + if so item/description shall be changed or item must be disabled ) or
2. if customer did mistake with purchase (even changed his mind) + NO download made.
Otherwise it’s not my part of the business and I don’t have any control over it.
Just imagine! You sell phisical goods through ebay/paypal/amazon, etc, whatever let say you sold $300 phone through ebay, you received cleared payment you shipped the product as it was described, then in 2 weeks visa/ebay/paypal discovered stolen card or other kind of fraudulent purchase. Can you imagine sale reversal for you as a seller who shipped the product and did everything right?
Who take the risks? I’m sure somebody who take commisions and who provide online store or payment services (visa, paypal, ebay, etc).
They do the risks, they take commisions and they actively work to prevent any fraudulent activities. Seller just have products he sell, pay commision and shall do his part of business right. Will you ever consider to sell through ebay with the risk of sale reversal with no product back? Seller shall have clear rules and clear projection what he pay and what he get. If I agree for 5% commision and at the end receive “sorry we got reversals, accedent, meteorit, etc, whatever and we have to charge you $150 or even $1 that was not agreed” shall I trust this service or this is fooling prove and shall I broke?
Does it sounds reasonable?
Best Regards, Andrey
R3dRidl3 saidthey do a paypal dispute and get the item for free.
If i’m correct, someone who DOWNLOADED the item will NOT get a refund. Envato can check this. Please correct me if i’m wrong.
It’s a dirty little secret that can also be applied to any type of “service” related transaction if you catch my drift. Bottom line, it’s a ridiculous policy that allows Paypal to keep their customers happy while pinning the losses on someone else.
- Sold between 100 000 and 250 000 dollars
- Bought between 50 and 99 items
- Referred between 100 and 199 users
- Grew a moustache for the Envato Movember competition
- Exclusive Author
- Has been a member for 4-5 years
- Microlancer Beta Tester
Envato could easily swallow the loss due to reversals. All this hocus pocus is just giving it publicity, advertising this dark method that most didn’t even know about. Now everybody knows about it and have an educated guess how it works, I bet the reversal count increased compared to what it was.
Let’s sue Paypal
If their system is not good enough to protect authors who sells downloadable stuff, they are the problem. As I understand, you don’t need to have a fraudulent account in Paypal to stole an item. You only need to push a button in your account to “Undo” any purchase. This feature is obviously intended to avoid that someone else buy stuff with your account. If that happens, you can cancel the transaction at anytime and you doesn’t lost the money. For honest people, this is an awesome feature if you think about it. But in our case, we are dealing with thieves and they see this feature as an exploit. Once they download the item, they undo the payment and their money comes back with them. So technically, they are getting the items for free, because the money never left theirs Paypal accounts.
I’m neutral about who needs to be responsible about the costs of the sales reversals. But I think that the only one who can take action about this is Envato as a company. They need to let Paypal know what is happening in here and ask them for a complete solution.
as I understood by the envato’s official explanation about sale reversals, there is just one reason for a sale reversal that is “unauthorised activity on the credit card, PayPal or Moneybookers account”.
so i think envato can protect the files! ... what comes to my mind is Envato for example can prepare a new system to encrypt files with a password that will be sent to a phone number which the buyer registers during purchasing procedure in, say, 24 hours after the purchase! ... so if a fraud buys something, (s)he must register a phone number!
fake number>sale reversal->no access to the files!
real number>sale reversal->tracking the number by James Bond!
The solution is simple,. allow authors to choose the accepted payment methods for their items. If I don’t want to allow people to use paypal to buy my stuff, let me do so. If Envato thinks the pros of using paypal are higher than the cons, then they should take the reversals.
You don’t pay for the sale reversal because those money were never yours. Thus I do agree that the old system was much better. I have something around 0.X% in terms of sale reversals I think, I’ll come later with some stats.