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joiaco
says

The simplest solution I see is for reversals to be split 50/50. If reversals are here to stay, for the time being, then at least Envato paying 50% of each reversal would be more fair to the author, but while also having authors share the load. At least until a better solution presents itself.

+1. If there really is no way to fix this as they tell us, then this seems the fairest solution to me. Together with a choice for authors regarding the payment system.

However, It’s difficult to believe that this kind of scamming cannot be prevented by PayPal and/or Envato by just a bit of cooperation. I mean surely both sides would win if they repair the flaws in the systems?

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Softwebmedia
says

....... so i think envato can protect the files! ... what comes to my mind is Envato for example can prepare a new system to encrypt files with a password that will be sent to a phone number which the buyer registers during purchasing procedure in, say, 24 hours after the purchase! ... so if a fraud buys something, (s)he must register a phone number! fake number>sale reversal->no access to the files! real number>sale reversal->tracking the number by James Bond! :D

+1

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KangarooSpirit
says

Would be nice if Envato used a callback system in members’ products so they can associate a purchase ID or domain name to it, and if there isn’t a record, DMCA.

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doru
says

Let’s sue Paypal :bigevilgrin: If their system is not good enough to protect authors who sells downloadable stuff, they are the problem.

is not envato fault off course. As authors, we are the last step but also the most damaged. We worked hard to provide exclusive items for this marketplace, I’m asking too much for envato to at least try to protect the authors and the items?

why is this not clear enough? I don’t care about one sale reversal or ten. Is the idea that I see from envato: “who cares, let’s give them the money back, in the end some other author item will be sold and I will still make the money. The result of the scam is to fill warez websites with items? I don’t care since new authors will provide fresh items.”

This is my impression of the situation and it really makes me angry when we start talking about community and how close we are tied together as a family. Maybe is a wrong impression and envato didn’t communicate clear enough what they do to fight this type of behavior. But for now I don’t like that we use the shield of “close to community” while at the same time is just cold business relations.

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Dream-Theme
says

as I understood by the envato’s official explanation about sale reversals, there is just one reason for a sale reversal that is “unauthorised activity on the credit card, PayPal or Moneybookers account”. so i think envato can protect the files! ... what comes to my mind is Envato for example can prepare a new system to encrypt files with a password that will be sent to a phone number which the buyer registers during purchasing procedure in, say, 24 hours after the purchase! ... so if a fraud buys something, (s)he must register a phone number! fake number>sale reversal->no access to the files! real number>sale reversal->tracking the number by James Bond! :D

You do realize it will ruin the marketplace? nobody will use it since there are simpler alternatives.

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Dream-Theme
says

Though I do strongly believe that Envato does not need to pay for reversals (and authors must themselves protect their support resources with more sophisticated Purchase Code checking),

I also believe that “Purchase > Get support > Get some customization > Reverse Purchase > Trollface” scenario must be eliminated. Envato is big enough compan, so it CAN and MUST negotiate with PayPal.

+1

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dtbaker
Moderator
says

“who cares, let’s give them the money back,

its not up to envato to give money back or not

there is no option, there is no dispute, there is no cancel-wait-holdon button.

the payment provider says “I’m taking $x back right now, kthxbai”

it’s the exact same problem that every digital marketplace (or indipendent seller) has, there are countless threads about this on the internet ( https://www.google.com/?q=paypal%20dispute%20digital ), and unfortunately no clear cut fix that works in everyones best interest in every situation (especially the near-impossible-to-win case of credit card chargebacks, which are even further up the line from paypal).

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quickandeasy
says
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chargeback

“Chargeback is the return of funds to a consumer, forcibly initiated by the issuing bank

As @dtbaker points out, it’s not up to Envato.

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Dream-Theme
says

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chargeback

“Chargeback is the return of funds to a consumer, forcibly initiated by the issuing bank

As @dtbaker points out, it’s not up to Envato.

IMO what @doru was saying is not that Envato explicitly giving money back, but rather not willing to negotiate the situation with PayPal. If Envato does not want to pay attention to this issue, than yes, they must pay for reversals. Not authors.

Please right me if I’m wrong.

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doru
says

IMO what @doru was saying is not that Envato explicitly giving money back, but rather not willing to negotiate the situation with PayPal. If Envato does not want to pay attention to this issue, than yes, they must pay for reversals. Not authors. Please right me if I’m wrong.

exactly

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