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Johnny4B says


Well Eugene, all I know is, if I showcase a prototype of a website for a client and they are paying for that work, and I tell them its compatible in xy browser, and it is not, then I aint doing my job correctly
Then make it compatible in xy browser.

Well, that’s the point, I wouldn’t, I was using it as an example …. A sort of comparison to the fact of my original point

You couldn’t see that, or are you trying to be smart and failing miserably

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Johnny4B says

IE9 doesn’t support css transitions. Without a js fallback, that means no fade but on/off for an hover transition. That doesn’t qualify as major issue in my book: as long as all elements are correctly placed/formatted, the template/theme is ie compatible. If that’s not the case for you, just ie check the preview before purchasing it.

I don’t need to check it, I know it wont work

And further more, I wasn’t buying the template, I was merely asking why they got approved

As it happens, the CSS fallback implemented in two of three, totally detracts from the look of the templates in question.

No it does not effect the structure of the websites. but it does the look ,and once again I’ll state that he majority of websites bought here would be down to looks with more customers *

Anyway, this is turning into a points scoring contest and this stage, and well I aint really up for that.

I suppose, with you in particular, we will have top agree to disagree

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bitfade says

I don’t need to check it, I know it wont work
what i meant was: if transitions in ie are crucial to you, just ie check the preview to make sure a js fallback is present.
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Johnny4B says


I don’t need to check it, I know it wont work
what i meant was: if transitions in ie are crucial to you, just ie check the preview to make sure a js fallback is present.

Well, two of them also use 3D tranforms, no JS fallaback is going to help there

But that’s a different thread for a different day :-)

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FRESHFACE says

To answer your original question, I think that themeforest considers a template “browser compatible” if it does work properly as an accessible website and does not fall apart. Correct me if I am wrong.

Just a note, I have no idea what website/template you are referring to so I will just talk in general terms now.

Try thinking of those CSS transitions as a progressive enhancement rather then graceful degradation. There are many opinions floating around the web on this topic, such as this one

http://alistapart.com/article/understandingprogressiveenhancement

Also, I think you missed a point this website tried to make:

http://dowebsitesneedtolookexactlythesameineverybrowser.com/

If you do open it in some old browser for the first time, all you see is a big “No!”, you think “ok whatever, I get the message”... But… if you then open it in some newer browser, you can see that the “No!” is now slightly decorated. Ah-ha! What happened is that you realized you did not miss anything as a user of the old browser – you still clearly received the message. You did not expect that the “No!” should be decorated and you certainly not needed it. So the point is that the importance of 100% identical styling in older browsers is overrated as long as the website is accessible.

To sum it up, this is the new way of thinking and it’s getting to the point where it’s widely accepted and preferred, just like responsive design.

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Johnny4B says

Oh, I’d get the point, I have seen it before, I just chose to ignore it cause it really didn’t address the point I was making :-)

And as much as I appreciate your opinion Freshface (I do hate using Pseudonym’s), comparing developing for Responsive Design to the point I was making, are rally miles apart

The fact remains, not all of the coding is compatible with the browsers it clearly states, we can argue all day about standards , whats perceived as acceptable, and whats not ( which I might add are you will have as many agree and disagree ), but to reiterate, it should not state that the website (which incorporates all element of the website) is compatible with a browser that its not ….

Thats my opinion, professionally, as a customer, or whatever way you want to take it

I still think my initial question was a fair one, I hasten to add I don’t think for a second that a Envato member of staff will answer it

I will also add, I aint having a go at the authors in relation to these templates, but I will also add one more thing

The really top authors in Themeforest, we all know who they are, would never ever use transitions without having some fallback in place, and would not use transforms and state its compatible with xy browser when its not.

Thats regardless of whats generally accepted as you state

Anyway, it looks like I am fighting a losing battle here :-), not the first time and wont be the last

Regards

J

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Orbital_Themes says

Look at it this way:

Imagine that you buy yourself a shiny new BluRay player along with some BluRay movies. You hook up the player to your 640×480 display, insert the disc and hit play. Would you complain that the movie you see is not 1080p?

This is what happens when old technology meets new.

The web is maturing and progressive enhancement is the way to go. Designers and developers have been constrained by the outdated web browsers for too long. The ‘website doesn’t have to look exactly the same in every browser’ philosophy has been widely adopted by web designers and now it’s about time for consumers to take some responsibility too.

As in my BluRay example above, it’s your responsibility to know and own a display that is capable of displaying 1080p image to enjoy full quality of a BluRay disc. It’s the same with web – it’s your responsibility to choose which web browser you want to use. If you want to see the web in it’s full glory then you should download a modern browser, especially given that browsers are free, unlike 1080p displays.

If you sell web services to your clients it is your job to educate them. You can either offer them a modern website that is compatible with 10 year old browsers, or you can offer them a 10 year old website which works exactly the same in every browser. It’s your choice, it’s their choice.

In addition to that, while providing Javascript fallbacks for ancient browsers is possible in most cases, I would prefer to have smooth experience without fancy animations than to have a laggy slideshow instead animations. The truth is that animating with Javascript is inefficient even in modern browsers on powerful machines, and is painful to watch in IE7 on P4 1.5GHz.

Websites are not about fancy animations – these are just an addition to make the experience even better. Website should be usable in the first place. Bloating ancient browsers with thousands of lines of JS transitions will make your website unpleasant to use at best, impossible to use in the worst scenario.

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mafloral says

@Johnny4B

Well here is the thing, We got these awesome CSS3 transitions why not use them because of IE here is a question for you, and i am not trying to be a smart alec. Do you play your Blueray discs in your dvd player? I can answer that for you, and it’s a no right. Same thing goes for browsers. I mean all it takes is updating the damn things just like the operating system on your comouter, phone and so on. Also try to use some better browsers than IE, IE breaks everything cool and nice.

FF is great Chrome even safari.

Cheers mate.

Lester

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pjtops says

If you sell web services to your clients it is your job to educate them. You can either offer them a modern website that is compatible with 10 year old browsers, or you can offer them a 10 year old website which works exactly the same in every browser. It’s your choice, it’s their choice.

The only way to make a website look EXACTLY the same in all browsers, new and old, is to design it in photoshop, then export the whole page as 1 big, single image. Then its not interactive, and you have to worry about SEO. And even that single image wont look the same in difference screen sizes and resolutions. Anyone who expects a modern, well designed website to look and function exactly the same everywhere is just being unreasonable.

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billyf says

My personal opinion is that if the website works (with the layout, look etc. intact), then it is considered compatible. Having nice CSS transitions would just improve the user experience but will not alter the functionality of the website.

However, if you want to emulate CSS transitions using javascript so that the same effects will appear in an old browser, I will go against that idea because you are now making things worse for those who are using old browsers. As we know, those browsers cannot process Javascript as fast as newer browsers, so why are we compromising their browsing speed for fancy animation?

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