731 posts All things are possible, for one who believes.
  • Won a competition
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
  • Located in Canada
  • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
+8 more
TimMcMorris says

Time for a novel ;) ….Once I was in favor of the vocal category the way it’s currently set up, however now as it grows and I can see its direction more clearly, I would like to see it completely restructured or even eliminated.

As more tracks with vocals go up for sale (which is good) it makes much more sense to classify each track by genre, not simply by the fact the track has vocals in it. The vocal categories should be for works that simply contain some type of vocal that does not have music with it…..like spoken word or a vocal sound effect.

Why do I say this?

- I believe most people, when they search, search by using keywords that relate to a “feel” or genre, OR by browsing the categories. When we eventually have hundreds of files with vocals, how will buyers be able to quickly differentiate between them other then listening through each piece to determine what they are about?

Example: If a buyer wants a rock song and they decide to search by browsing the rock category instead of using the search, all the vocal tracks automatically become eliminated as an option. On the other hand, if they want a rock song with vocals and browse the vocal category, they will be left to sort through all the files manually.

- As the search isn’t refined like we would like it to be just yet (I know it’s in the process) it doesn’t handle the job as good as it should with tags….it could be argued to my statement above that tags are the solution, but for now that’s not the case. Even then however, unless we become super generic with our titles: Rock Song 1, Rock Song 2, etc….they still may not perform as well as one would like.

- That being said, a track with vocals will have (at least if it’s tagged properly) vocals in the file tag however, so it’s already eligible for search on some level, so it doesn’t need it’s own category.

- As it was brought up before I believe, I am in favor of some sort of badge or mark to identify whether a track has vocals. Nothing super special to try and make the track stand out from the others in that sense, but just something that allows the buyers to easily scan the files when browsing that shows them a track contains vocals.

- Classifying a track by whether it contains vocals or not instead of by genre also creates a problem for files where the instrumental is also included in the zip, and again excludes these tracks from other categorization possibilities.

This idea came about because lately some of my work is being placed in the vocal category when I submitted to specific genres,…. I don’t want them in the vocal category because it greatly minimizes exposure….it’s not like vocals are the only thing they contain, so to me it doesn’t make too much sense :)

Having a vocal category is kinda like creating a “guitar solo” category and placing everything in there that has a guitar solo, even if in it’s entirety it’s a 4 minute track. Sure a track may have something unique like a solo or vocals that make it stand out from another track, but it should still be incorporated into the normal genre structure.

Those are my thoughts!....You’re thoughts are appreciated ;)

1180 posts 12 notes. Unlimited potential.
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Member of the Envato Team
  • Has sold $75,000+ on Envato Market and is now an Elite Author
  • Has collected 100+ items on Envato Market
+12 more
garethcoker Envato team says

I agree. I have a bunch of Celtic, Middle-Eastern, and African tracks that I will be uploading over the coming months. Unless I give them a blatantly mundane title like “African Vocal Track 1”, no-one is going to know what is what.

So…my Afircan track ends up being right next to one of your tracks Tim. Not a bad thing (because you sell so much), but confusing and time consuming for the buyer.

That being said, AJ do a pretty good job of categorizing the tracks. I think all they need to do is – when we upload a track and have a tab / button / checkbox which says ‘With Vocals // Without Vocals’.

This is what they have with the ‘Looped’ tracks now. There’s that little drop-drown box where you just have to specifiy ‘Yes’ or ‘No’, and I think the same could be done with vocals.

It would lead to better categorization of vocal tracks, a smaller more refined category list, and would make it easier for buyers.

Or something like that anyway…!!

688 posts
  • Has referred 1+ members
  • Has sold $1,000+ on Envato Market
  • Has collected 10+ items on Envato Market
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 5 years
+5 more
robGD Volunteer moderator says

+10

1049 posts
  • Had an item featured on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Interviewed on an Envato blog
  • Has sold $5,000+ on Envato Market
+7 more
Sonicbyte says

agree :)

2678 posts
  • Member of the Envato Team
  • Joined an Envato Football competition
  • Attended one of our Meetups around the world
  • Helped several times protecting Envato Market against copyright violations
+16 more
scottwills Envato team says

Hey Tim, thanks for the feedback! :)

We should already be classifying vocal tracks by genre – I see that most of your tracks are classified this way (It’s a Beautiful Day is in Motivational, Make It Last is in Romantic/Sentimental etc…). So it looks like some tracks may have inadvertently ended-up in the separate vocal category which we’ll be glad to rectify. :) I’ll make sure the review team are all on the same page about this categorization issue. :)

Regarding customers searching for vocal tracks, please be sure to add “vocals” as one of your tags in the keywords field. That way, a customer coming to the site and searching for “love vocals” will be able to find exactly what they’re looking for. :) Never say never, but I’m not sure at this stage if adding a separate vocal checkbox is necessary, (a) seeing as 99.9% of all our tracks are non-vocal and (b) we want to make the upload process as easy and as quick as possible. Therefore using “voice” and/or “vocal” in the Instrument tags are the way to go. :)

Meanwhile, authors are always welcome to to contact support@envato.com if ever they feel a track has been incorrectly categorized so we can take a second look. Our reviewers are really good at making sure tracks go into the correct category when they review so we rarely encounter this issue, but we’re here to help if something does end up in the wrong category.

Thanks again! :)

1180 posts 12 notes. Unlimited potential.
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Member of the Envato Team
  • Has sold $75,000+ on Envato Market and is now an Elite Author
  • Has collected 100+ items on Envato Market
+12 more
garethcoker Envato team says

As usual Scott has an awesome reply.

731 posts All things are possible, for one who believes.
  • Won a competition
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
  • Located in Canada
  • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
+8 more
TimMcMorris says

...So it looks like some tracks may have inadvertently ended-up in the separate vocal category which we’ll be glad to rectify. :) I’ll make sure the review team are all on the same page about this categorization issue. :)

I’m aware :) glad they are where they are … it’s interesting to note that those are “coincidentally” my best selling tracks….

All my vocal tracks have the vocals tags already, thanks ;)

Not sure though if you got what I meant overall however…

I’m not worried about my vocals tracks not being found when people are looking for vocal tracks. It’s the other way around, vocal tracks are eliminated from all otherwise eligible categories when a user chooses to search by category.

If someone who is looking for a rock track (with or without vocals, lets say it doesn’t matter to them as long as it’s a rock track) chooses to browse by genre, and selects rock, do not all vocal tracks now become ineligible?

I don’t want to start bugging support if they place my track in the vocal category every time however…..it just seems odd that it takes numerous factors to determine a genre of a song (playing style, instrumentation etc ) whereas vocal tracks are wholly defined by the single fact that they have vocals. :O In my opinion, if the vocal category us going to remain, it will also need to be subdivided into genres….which, isn’t ideal I’m sure.

2678 posts
  • Member of the Envato Team
  • Joined an Envato Football competition
  • Attended one of our Meetups around the world
  • Helped several times protecting Envato Market against copyright violations
+16 more
scottwills Envato team says

Hey Tim,

I think we’re on the same page. :) My previous post was stating that all tracks containing vocals should be categorized by our existing genres, not the Vocal categories we currently have. The few that have slipped through however, we’ll be updating shortly. Once we’ve done that, and if we evaluate that there’s no further need for the separate Vocals category, we’ll be glad to consider nixing it.

If I’m missing something extra however, please let me know or shoot me a PM, glad to help! :)

731 posts All things are possible, for one who believes.
  • Won a competition
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
  • Located in Canada
  • Has sold $500,000+ on Envato Market
+8 more
TimMcMorris says
Hey Tim,

I think we’re on the same page. :) My previous post was stating that all tracks containing vocals should be categorized by our existing genres, not the Vocal categories we currently have. The few that have slipped through however, we’ll be updating shortly. Once we’ve done that, and if we evaluate that there’s no further need for the separate Vocals category, we’ll be glad to consider nixing it.

If I’m missing something extra however, please let me know or shoot me a PM, glad to help! :)

Thanks Scott :) , I was the one who misunderstood you!

2678 posts
  • Member of the Envato Team
  • Joined an Envato Football competition
  • Attended one of our Meetups around the world
  • Helped several times protecting Envato Market against copyright violations
+16 more
scottwills Envato team says
Thanks Scott :) , I was the one who misunderstood you!

No worries. Must be my funny accent. :D

by
by
by
by
by
by