2299 posts Bird is the word..
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jonathan01 says

Got to agree with Chris and Themebros on this – don’t ever rush things to make things simpler, take time and make it useful, to everyone – always the best policy.

We were asking for improvements for 2 years, now when they are going to make them let’s not agree with simplified versions of those improvements.

yup!

Just because its simple to implement doesn’t mean its an improvement for the users. Authors are crying because they dont have feedback for bad ratings, a like system isn’t going to change that. Actually they probably wont get any feedback if someone doesn’t like the theme(or the theme is broke)

Exactly.

What I have to ask is this, for YEARS we have been told that things are in the pipeline, from this discussion alone I think I now understand what the pipeline actually is, it’s a post-it note that has all the things authors have bitched about scribbled on it.

Obviously we were told things couldn’t get fixed because of a lack of developers, now Envato have a very strong team of developers but who was planning what they needed to actually do when you had the man (woman) power to do these things – the answer has to be no one at all – surely this stuff could of been planned with a list of suggestions to pose to the devs and for them to then work out what was best for the systems.

This marketplace (and all the others) are so far behind the times on simple, standard functions it’s almost a joke at times, and I mean that with the upmost respect, but after years of INVALUABLE feedback from your users (which other companies simply have to beg for) you still seem to continue to brush ideas to the side because they are not simple – again simple is not the answer hardly ever, thorough understanding of what your users (authors and buyers) needs and demands is what should always be built.

Otherwise someone else comes along and does it, and trust me Envato you may be the biggest kid on the block, but you know, so were many others.

I hope you come up with possibly 3 alternatives and at least throw up another pole to get some feedback before putting a like system in, which is universally the worse feedback system in existence.

Thanks for listening to my rant, I mean no harm, just wanted to be heard after almost 6 years of being here.

Jonathan

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justinfrench Envato team says

can someone tell me how a like system is an improvement from the current one?

It probably isn’t an improvement, I have no opinion yet, but it depends on your perspective, which is why I’m keen to see everyone discuss this.

The star rating system is half-baked, half-done — there’s a long way to go addressing it’s shortcomings by building more stuff, and a lot of the work (especially improving transparency) is required simply because we started out with star rating system, rather than some other rating system.

Pretend we have no rating system at all. Think about what authors need, and what buyers need to know about an item before they buy it. Is a star-rating system still the right direction for us to head?

“Yes” and “no” are both fine answers, I just want to explore our options — it’s not really about less or more work, it’s about the right work.

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justinfrench Envato team says

I hope you come up with possibly 3 alternatives and at least throw up another pole to get some feedback before putting a like system in…

Absolutely — ratings are too important not to. The first step on something like this is consulting with the community and getting feedback (and I guess this thread has sort-of turned into a tiny part of that). Even if the changes we’re planning seem like exactly what’s been asked for over the years, we’ll still want buy-in from the community.

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bitfade says

Authors are crying because they dont have feedback for bad ratings, a like system isn’t going to change that. Actually they probably wont get any feedback if someone doesn’t like the theme(or the theme is broke)
Quite frankly, people that rate your item 1 star do not give a s**t about helping you improve your item. The far most common reason is that they assumed they could do something which wasn’t advertised and you refused to do free customizations.

That doesn’t provide any valuable feedback for both authors and buyers but still is able to kill item sales when happening in the early ratings.

If an item is full of bugs, you will have lot of early bad comments to being with. Buyers will read them and, if not convinced by author replies, they will just move on. Item will stop selling, there will be no further comments and the valuable information “this item is crap” will be left there for anybody to read.

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themebros says

Pretend we have no rating system at all. Think about what authors need, and what buyers need to know about an item before they buy it. Is a star-rating system still the right direction for us to head?

Star rating with a required textual review. It’s not just about the customer explaining a low rating and me defending myself, i’d like to know what i’m doing right as much as i want to know what i’m doing wrong.

It should work as comments so together with the customer we can figure out what’s the problem and how to solve it.

The customer should be able to change the rating down the road. Something like:

  • Customer – 2 stars
    Blah blah
  • Author
    Blah blah
  • Customer
    Blah blah
  • Author
    Blah blah
  • Customer – 5 stars
    Happy Blah blah

That’s my suggestion, would love to hear other suggestions as well that don’t include a simple like system.

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organicbee says

what makes you think people who rate it 1 star(or if a like system was in place doesnt like it) would actually leave feedback in the comments.

If they don’t leave feedback now, they wont leave feed when there isn’t a system specifically for it.

So lets put in a like system. Now lets look at it as a potential buyer of the theme the theme has say 100 likes out of 500 sales. Okay that means 100 buyers liked the theme must be a pretty good theme right? lets take a look at the comments… GLWS, GLWS,GLWS, pre- purchase question, GLWS, support question…. crap Im getting tired of looking at comments… pre-purchase question, support request, someone bitching about the theme..Hey theres 1 negative feedback lets look some more… support request, support request… GLWS… okay Im f**king board now and tired of sifting through 100s of comments that are actually support requests or GLWS


Pretend we have no rating system at all. Think about what authors need, and what buyers need to know about an item before they buy it. Is a star-rating system still the right direction for us to head?

I dont think the star system is bad as long as its improved upon but I also think the comments should be split 1 specific area for reviews, 1 for support/pre purchase questions

also when there’s a review its tied to someones post

I also dont see the current system as a major issue unless theres foul play going on(threats for bad rating if custom work isnt done, or competing authors leaving bad feedback)

We all mostly live in a free world people are allowed to have opinions if I want to rate something 1 star because I don’t like how it works I can and should be able to.

Theres a lot of themes on here that look great and function as advertised but I’d rate 1 star simple because of bad coding practices, so what does the author cry when I say that? Envato removes the comments/rating, and the marketplace is just 1 happy family? Yes those are all questions ;-)

Lets look at a few systems for larger marketplace

Amazon.

Star rating system any users can leave feedback for products, other users can comment, users can also change feedback, can mark as verified purchase from amazon, users can also vote is the review was helpful or not.

aka “this is a crap product” isnt a helpful review and normally gets down voted or a billion comments saying be more specific.users can manage reviews

Amazon also sends emails remind buyers to review the product(this is actually pretty)

Apple

Star system, buyers can leave comments, dont require review, anyone can write comments, ends up a cluster of “add me” , buyers can vote if reviews were helpful, users can manage reviews

both of them show what stars were rated and a average like others have suggested in this thread

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organicbee says


Authors are crying because they dont have feedback for bad ratings, a like system isn’t going to change that. Actually they probably wont get any feedback if someone doesn’t like the theme(or the theme is broke)
Quite frankly, people that rate your item 1 star do not give a s**t about helping you improve your item. The far most common reason is that they assumed they could do something which wasn’t advertised and you refused to do free customizations.

That doesn’t provide any valuable feedback for both authors and buyers but still is able to kill item sales when happening in the early ratings.

If an item is full of bugs, you will have lot of early bad comments to being with. Buyers will read them and, if not convinced by author replies, they will just move on. Item will stop selling, there will be no further comments and the valuable information “this item is crap” will be left there for anybody to read.

I dont think a like system is a better solution, if a theme gets rated 1 star that user thinks it deserved 1 star, not enough features not enough blah, whatever the reason it they believe it was deserved, they should be required to leave feedback before leave low ratings yes. Whether it gets sent to the author or posted it publicly doesn’t matter just add a textbox with as a required field for bad ratings.

A like system isnt going do crap for more feedback, all its going to do is prevent people that dont like the item from leaving what they think is feedback. As I said though if its legitimate negative feedback its good no matter what the cause

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VF says

@bitfade, like system is a trap! Don’t dream about healthy authoring life just by cutting option for buyers ;) Once Envato implement a like system, in one month or so they will just add “dislike” option due to buyer requests – will be worse than getting a 4 star, 3 star and not even 1 star but that is almost equal to negative star. Think about having negative number in terms of “like” reputation for an item uploaded in the recent 2 weeks! :D Actually this will work even better for those who intends to blackmail for free custom work. And it will take another 3-4 years to fine-tune and perfect that system.

And without the possibility to add a 4 star or 3 star, even most of the good/gentle buyers would be forced to think about “dislike” option to choose. And as an author, not giving the opportunity to the buyers to leave a 4 star kind of feedback is little bit greedy too!

Btw, in case a like system proposed, not sure how this will be updated for old items. Is that even possible? Is that even worth spending staff’s time on that? May be consider that for AudioJungle and similar marketplaces where star rating doesn’t makes any sense. But for any marketplace that has items so close to a “product”, star rating is the only matching way.

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VF says

@ Any Envato staff:

Please spend your time on improving things addition to what exists already; there are too many things to do in this way. Not to change, replace or experiment :(

It will again trigger a vicious circle of fine-tuning for years before touching the point of optimized, maximum efficiency. No matter what system you start with.

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bfield3 says

I haven’t read through the entire thread so I apologize if what I’m going to say has been covered. But as a potential buyer of a Wordpress theme I can say the rating system they have in place is useless to me. It appears I can’t see the ratings of previous buyers so for all I know a theme that got a 3 star rating could probably be as good as a theme that got a 5 star rating, but the unlucky author of the 3 star rating happened to get stuck with some very unreasonable buyers.

I’m looking to make my first purchase and I’ve looked at hundreds of themes. Every single author I’ve looked at has provided top notch, timely support, the kind of support that most big companies should be envious of. If there is a pre-sales question I have about what is or isn’t included in the theme then I post on the theme’s comment section and within a day I have an answer. So I know going into the purchase what I’m getting, or not getting. I don’t see how any of the themes I’ve looked at could get a rating lower than 4. And that would only happen if the buyer of the theme found an obvious bug that the author refused to fix.

They need to put in a rating system similar to what Amazon has. The rater is required to put in a review as well as the rating and all those reviews need to be made visible to potential buyers. Plus, if the reviewer deems it necessary to give a low rating (maybe 3 stars or less) the theme author should get a time period in which to rectify the issue, assuming there really is one, and if it’s a reasonable issue and it’s taken care of then the rating either gets removed or bumped up.

It’s quite obvious to me that many of you theme authors put a lot of time into designing these themes, and then spend countless hours supporting them for no extra money for people that probably shouldn’t be doing their own website anyways :-) For you guys to get a poor rating because a buyer is blackmailing you because they want something added that wasn’t part of the theme or they are just downright unreasonable is ridiculous. I’ll bet a lot of money is lost because a theme has a lower rating when it doesn’t deserve it. Most people won’t even look at a theme unless it has at least 4 stars and I bet some won’t look at themes that don’t have at least 5 stars.

You’re all pretty smart – one or a few of you should get together and start a competing company to TF. I bet with a little bit of marketing, faster times to make things ‘right’ when they are obviously wrong and and better terms you could easily pull many authors away from TF.

Like I said, even as a potential buyer you can’t imagine how mad I get when I see a theme with a poor rating and I have no idea why someone rated it that way. It would be so helpful to all of us if they would improve the system.

Peace all

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