226 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 3 years
  • Has referred 1+ members
  • Has sold $5,000+ on Envato Market
  • Has collected 1+ items on Envato Market
+3 more
BetaMotion says

new search is bad :( sales noticeably dropped
+1
1615 posts I create things I wish existed
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $75,000+ on Envato Market and is now an Elite Author
  • Won a competition
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
+8 more
cyzer says

Well… now i probably understand where the problem is, and it’s BIG.

I have read some articles and info about the search engines and how they work and what happens if you change search engine. This is one possible way and I think I am probably right:

Explanation: Since they moved from old legacy search into new “ElasticSearch” engine, the information that was carried by each item is irrelevant now. Every item in the old search used to carry it’s own information:

  • when it was bought;
  • what keywords were used to find that item;
  • how it went up or down in the list;
  • how many purchases were done with that item using certain search word;
  • how many boost points were applied to item to go up or down the list.

All this information or a part of this information on each item is now gone.

My Guess: So in conclusion I guess they are trying to restore all this in a manual way trying to categorize the search word relevance which is a huge buggy work because devs need to know marketplace trends and each item category itself on each marketplace – which is obviously impossible because they are not authors nor buyers who use items.

So in my opinion the items are being totally randomized because they don’t carry any or just some needed information of what actually happened to them throughout the marketplace history.

IN VIDEOHIVE: If your item was popular and on top when searching for “iPhone”, now it’s going to be ordinary as any other “iPhone” item and will pick the way up to top again if will be bought. Same for AE “Logo” items, now they all are just bunch of “same quality items” without history – as search understand them.

This explains authors frustration about sales being off a cliff down. Including myself my sales became really low since search change.

236 posts Marketplace Developer
  • Has collected 1+ items on Envato Market
  • Member of the Envato Team
  • Located in New Zealand
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 2 years
madlep Envato team says


IMPORTANT

Another search bug/mistake is: if you search for a “scary” it gives you 309 results. But if you want to filter it out by adding two search words “blue scary” it should give only projects which are blue and scary… but now it gives 3101 results….

Every word written in the search acts like a different separate search and stacks results in the same page.

Buyer instead of filtering by adding more tag words actualy makes it harder to find. This is sooooooo wrong.
As other have pointed out, not a bug, but it does this by design. ...

Yeah, actually, that is a bug. My bad sorry. We’re working on a fix :S


by the way, you asked about how i search on AJ for by length? If I’m looking for a track that’s say 1:30? i’ll search with this: browse/attributes/length/1:30 but i don’t believe that attr is being used on VH

Ah ok. That was what I was thinking, but interpreted what you’d written as that there is a secret way of searching for a range for the length value. Something like 1:30..1:45. There isn’t a way to do that at the moment (that I know of).

But watch this space in the very near future… :bigwink:


Well, that and I’m frankly in love with S3. :) We have servers in many different locations, but our business has changed so much since grid started then the cloud. We’ve still got racks co-located in a few datacenters, but have been migrating to distributed.

Yeah, cloud infrastructure is great. Definitely the way we’ll be going. We’ve got a lot of non critical services running (logging, monitoring, CI, etc) on EC2, and we’ll be looking at using it more to scale the main marketplace sites as we get more and more traffic and content.


Guys! Give them a break! Envato developers are working hard to make it a better website, and that’s one of the reasons why these marketplaces have been so successful. In a huge application with tons of visitors like this, it’s very difficult to apply major changes. I’m sure they’re doing their best.

:)


Building the whole application took us about 6 months, but since when we launched it (1.5 months ago) we’re monitoring it and making improvements all the time. Even though we don’t even have 1% of the visitors Envato marketplaces have, it’s a very difficult task. We’d love to do this for other marketplaces too, but the resources we have are limited right now.

PS – I haven’t forgotten your email about further API tweaks. Have been a bit swamped with… things… ;)


not sure if this is related to your “simplify”-process here, but the portfolio pages are missing the grid-list-view buttons. Now people on graphicriver cannot download their items anymore, or edit them from the portfolio. In the Visual Refresh thread people are already complaining: http://videohive.net/forums/message/go_to/986330

There are a few issues from the Visual Refresh. They should be being fixed up over the next day or two (if they haven’t been already).


Well… now i probably understand where the problem is, and it’s BIG.

I have read some articles and info about the search engines and how they work and what happens if you change search engine. This is one possible way and I think I am probably right:

Explanation: Since they moved from old legacy search into new “ElasticSearch” engine, the information that was carried by each item is irrelevant now. Every item in the old search used to carry it’s own information:

...

All this information or a part of this information on each item is now gone.

Uh, no. It’s all still there :) We can blow the search index away and rebuild it from the main database very quickly, in fact we do that 1-2 times a week to rollout certain changes that need a full reindex.

Solr (old search engine) and elasticsearch (new search engine) both have the same core technology powering the search algorithms (Lucene). Same data, same basic algorithms. Just better ways of scaling and tweaking it with elasticsearch.

Main reason for changes since the Solr/elasticsearch swap is that the way Solr was being used was really really naive. It basically just boosted by sales with a small boost for name/description/tag matches. That’s not a problem with Solr so much as it was with the way we were using it. It was added to the marketplaces years ago, then never seriously worked on again till the elasticsearch work kicked off.

Items got to the top because they had good early sales, or they just got there because of a fluke of the way the search engine ordered the data. The rich got richer, and it was hard for new items to break into the top of competitive search terms. Those items would have lost out yes, but they were probably items that shouldn’t have always been at the top of search results that they were.

With the new search backend we’ve taken more care to boost in other ways to give more exposure to other items to give them a chance, while balancing presenting solid items that have proven themselves.

And yeah, a few bugs along the way too, which sucks. :(

We’re trying our best to minimise those, while still building search to be as good as it can be.

88 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 4 years
  • Has collected 1+ items on Envato Market
  • Member of the Envato Team
  • Won the Envato Football Cup
+1 more
damirkotoric Envato team says

Ok. You guys win. On my todo list:

2191 posts aspire to create - create to inspire
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $125,000+ on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Had an item featured on Envato Market
+8 more
Creattive says

Ok. You guys win. On my todo list:

well that’s a good way to stay busy, like digging a hole and then filling it up again ;)

I will laugh cause I don’t want to cry

88 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 4 years
  • Has collected 1+ items on Envato Market
  • Member of the Envato Team
  • Won the Envato Football Cup
+1 more
damirkotoric Envato team says

@Creattive We made a mistake! We shouldn’t have removed the sort arrows before releasing their replacement feature. We listened to the community and now we’re going to fix that mistake. We’re working on changing the marketplaces for the better and sometimes the transition isn’t perfectly smooth. Comments like yours only make it harder for us to open up to mistakes and fix them. It wouldn’t hurt to offer a word of encouragement when we humbly take on board the opinions of our community.

30 posts
  • Has referred 1+ members
  • Has sold $10,000+ on Envato Market
  • Has collected 10+ items on Envato Market
  • Located in Europe
+2 more
Themes1 says

+1 for the old Search.

1615 posts I create things I wish existed
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $75,000+ on Envato Market and is now an Elite Author
  • Won a competition
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
+8 more
cyzer says

@Creattive We made a mistake! We shouldn’t have removed the sort arrows before releasing their replacement feature. We listened to the community and now we’re going to fix that mistake. We’re working on changing the marketplaces for the better and sometimes the transition isn’t perfectly smooth. Comments like yours only make it harder for us to open up to mistakes and fix them. It wouldn’t hurt to offer a word of encouragement when we humbly take on board the opinions of our community.

Damir you see there is a very little line between the angryness confusion and frustration because one has lost about 30 – 40 % of his earnings just because of the search changes “arrow” or “search words stacking” so it all affects us not through the internet not through this page. We are real people sitting here and we are angry cause sometimes no one listens and we got only this little field to express ourselfs. I do understand Creattives frustration and demotivation :) Anyway its all gonna be ok. I am sure.

226 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 3 years
  • Has referred 1+ members
  • Has sold $5,000+ on Envato Market
  • Has collected 1+ items on Envato Market
+3 more
BetaMotion says


@Creattive We made a mistake! We shouldn’t have removed the sort arrows before releasing their replacement feature. We listened to the community and now we’re going to fix that mistake. We’re working on changing the marketplaces for the better and sometimes the transition isn’t perfectly smooth. Comments like yours only make it harder for us to open up to mistakes and fix them. It wouldn’t hurt to offer a word of encouragement when we humbly take on board the opinions of our community.
Damir you see there is a very little line between the angryness confusion and frustration because one has lost about 30 – 40 % of his earnings just because of the search changes “arrow” or “search words stacking” so it all affects us not through the internet not through this page. We are real people sitting here and we are angry cause sometimes no one listens and we got only this little field to express ourselfs. I do understand Creattives frustration and demotivation :) Anyway its all gonna be ok. I am sure.
+1
2191 posts aspire to create - create to inspire
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $125,000+ on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Had an item featured on Envato Market
+8 more
Creattive says

My comment is not about losing sales.

(Actually I can still see the sort arrow?)

My comment is about stagnation for several years. Many users said it before, I will say it again: We have pages full of useful features, lists with about 30 items that are important and actually should be standard since 2010.

Instead of doing anything useful/requested, devs do senseless things like this simplify process here nobody asked for or has high priority (given that search functionality is not on todays standards). On top of that, devs spent their time with redundant things like adding/removing features and then reverting them back some days after.

This is not the fault of one dev only as I’m sure the commands for this come from higher above. Nevertheless, keeping their devs busy like trained monkeys to do useless stuff is nothing I think is needed from envato, better use these great peoples and their skills to do something that is requested.

Posts like mine are getting very old, so I won’t post again to discourage any dev who is just following senseless orders. Sorry for that Damir! It doesn’t change anything anyway.

Just for a better understanding, I will write my thoughts to Damir’s post:


We listened to the community and now we’re going to fix that mistake.

You didn’t listen in the first place, you do something nobody wanted, had asked for, is low-priority. Then, it took you several days to add the fix to your mistakes (that wasn’t needed in the first place) to your todo-list after the community told you it already on the first pages of this thread (e.g. right after we get to know of it).


We’re working on changing the marketplaces for the better…

It would be good to start with the essential, needed and requested things, if you really want to improve the marketplace. It just doesn’t fit in my head how removing a sort function, and then asking the user to go to last page and go backwards, is in anyway “improving” the marketplaces.


Comments like yours only make it harder for us to open up to mistakes and fix them.

I’m sorry for discouraging you, but I still think it is better to leave the marketplaces alone when the only alternative your bosses can think of are removing more features…


It wouldn’t hurt to offer a word of encouragement when we humbly take on board the opinions of our community.

I still would like to know where the opinions of your community were taken on board? When we hear from you in a thread like this, we get confronted with already made decisions and we can only inform you how bad and unnecessary these decisions were in the first place. If you want to pretend to take the community’s opinion on board, then ask them for their opinion before, not after you decide something.

For a word of encouragement I’m afraid you are 3-5 years too late. I have to say it again, this is not about you Damir, this cannot be about one person, this is about the whole company and how it is doing things. I know my words are discouraging but I have not more to offer as all our opinions and suggestions we made in good faith are ignored, while only our complain-posts are getting honored with an answer and blaming us to be negative.

I just don’t have any hope left so I will not post anymore as I do understand that this is discouraging for the people on the end of the chain who are not the ones to blame for this mess.

I don’t expect this post to change anything you do, there will always be some new authors who still have hope that this company will get back to good decisions for both their business partners and themselves, and I hope you can get encouragement from their word. but anyone who is longer here and reading the forums has already understood that all we can expect from envato is disappointment, useless decisions, hurting small authors and adding ads to all pages.

by
by
by
by
by
by