New License Discussion - Authors using items in their themes

LanceSnider said
Keep in mind that you can still use other items in your previews. For example, a theme developer may use watermarked photos in their theme preview and ,as long as they link back to the actual file in the description, that’s fine. If they don’t want to link back and don’t want to use a watermarked version, they can just purchase a regular license of the file (preview only). Most authors seem to go this route already.

Of course they got this route – for 2-3$ per photo who would be that cheap to use watermarked photos that make whole template totally unproffesional. I’m not pointing to the usage of items, I’m pointing to the pricing issue.

In my opinion the main problem is that you seem to treat all marketplaces the same way (with few exceptions like PhotoDune) and it’s working good in most of cases, but sometimes like with this licensing problem it’s clear that they are very different nature, and require different approach. You can’t just kill two birds (nine in that case) with one stone.

jonathan01 said
Nice to see some action on licenses – I’m hoping (due to today’s debacle elsewhere re Envato Vs WordPress Foundation) that we have further changes – one thing that doesn’t make sense to me however is this explanation under Extended license which seems to contradict what is said here:

Our Extended License allows use of the item in one single end product, which you or one client may sell to end users.

so… if I am buying an extended license I use in a theme (that’s the single end product) which I (you) then sell to end users (buyers)... seems when read like this it’s no different than before?

Personally I welcome the you can’t use in a theme as there are FAR too many themes that all look the same and all use the same 2 or 3 sliders.

Jonathan

When you put an item in a theme and it gets sold to 200 people and they use it on their own projects, that’s more than a single end use. The clause you are referencing is talking about the sale of an end product, like an app, a shirt, or a pay-to-access website.

jonathan01 said
Nice to see some action on licenses – I’m hoping (due to today’s debacle elsewhere re Envato Vs WordPress Foundation) that we have further changes – one thing that doesn’t make sense to me however is this explanation under Extended license which seems to contradict what is said here:

I notice the same thing which is why I saved a copy of that FAQ in case someone tries to come after me. I already made my purchases, both regular and extended and I’m wanting to be sure I’m in the clear as the FAQ suggests.

LanceSnider said

jonathan01 said
Nice to see some action on licenses – I’m hoping (due to today’s debacle elsewhere re Envato Vs WordPress Foundation) that we have further changes – one thing that doesn’t make sense to me however is this explanation under Extended license which seems to contradict what is said here:

Our Extended License allows use of the item in one single end product, which you or one client may sell to end users.

so… if I am buying an extended license I use in a theme (that’s the single end product) which I (you) then sell to end users (buyers)... seems when read like this it’s no different than before?

Personally I welcome the you can’t use in a theme as there are FAR too many themes that all look the same and all use the same 2 or 3 sliders.

Jonathan

When you put an item in a theme and it gets sold to 200 people and they use it on their own projects, that’s more than a single end use. The clause you are referencing is talking about the sale of an end product, like an app, a shirt, or a pay-to-access website.

I really think that needs clarifying a little better tbh – as I said, I don’t have an issue in not being able to, I just think it could be a lot clearer as it really does seem to read to me as I stated it by replacing the generic words with (theme) (me) (buyer) – to me a theme is a single product, to me a buyer is my end user etc – just food for thought.

purethemes said

LanceSnider said
Keep in mind that you can still use other items in your previews. For example, a theme developer may use watermarked photos in their theme preview and ,as long as they link back to the actual file in the description, that’s fine. If they don’t want to link back and don’t want to use a watermarked version, they can just purchase a regular license of the file (preview only). Most authors seem to go this route already.

Of course they got this route – for 2-3$ per photo who would be that cheap to use watermarked photos that make whole template totally unproffesional. I’m not pointing to the usage of items, I’m pointing to the pricing issue.

In my opinion the main problem is that you seem to treat all marketplaces the same way (with few exceptions like PhotoDune) and it’s working good in most of cases, but sometimes like with this licensing problem it’s clear that they are very different nature, and require different approach. You can’t just kill two birds (nine in that case) with one stone.

Agreed. This is just phase 2 of the licensing project. The next step is to make sure everything works for individual item types. We’ve already received a lot of excellent feedback on this front and when we get started, we’ll be asking for a whole lot more.

jonathan01 said

LanceSnider said

jonathan01 said
Nice to see some action on licenses – I’m hoping (due to today’s debacle elsewhere re Envato Vs WordPress Foundation) that we have further changes – one thing that doesn’t make sense to me however is this explanation under Extended license which seems to contradict what is said here:

Our Extended License allows use of the item in one single end product, which you or one client may sell to end users.

so… if I am buying an extended license I use in a theme (that’s the single end product) which I (you) then sell to end users (buyers)... seems when read like this it’s no different than before?

Personally I welcome the you can’t use in a theme as there are FAR too many themes that all look the same and all use the same 2 or 3 sliders.

Jonathan

When you put an item in a theme and it gets sold to 200 people and they use it on their own projects, that’s more than a single end use. The clause you are referencing is talking about the sale of an end product, like an app, a shirt, or a pay-to-access website.

I really think that needs clarifying a little better tbh – as I said, I don’t have an issue in not being able to, I just think it could be a lot clearer as it really does seem to read to me as I stated it by replacing the generic words with (theme) (me) (buyer) – to me a theme is a single product, to me a buyer is my end user etc – just food for thought.

Thanks for your input. I’m putting that on my list of things to look at this week. We want to make them as clear as possible!

Hey guys,

Just wanted to jump in on the use-in-stock comments that a few people have raised. As I mentioned in the post, our next phase will look at separate licenses for advanced uses like stock usage.

One of the goals of the licensing project has been to untangle the licenses before we start adding more into them. That’s what this phase is all about – taking the knots out, so we can start weaving.

The problem with our old Extended License, and it’s a problem that I introduced, was it did a few different things (paid end use, web services, use in stock, repurposing). And those different things were big on different marketplaces and needed different price points. The result is that our old Ext License just could not keep everyone happy. Similarly the Regular License was trying to cover the growing Tools categories, and not doing a very good job there.

This simplification means that the Extended License pretty much now only does one thing. That one thing – paid end use – makes up the vast majority of sales for that license type. So it was the logical one to keep. And we can now make sure that pricing is suited to that particular usage. We also should probably look at the naming of the license so its a bit more descriptive!

The next step is to look at other types of uses that authors want to sell (and in the case of TF authors – buy) and then address those. We did get to one of these in this phase which is the Tools license which has now been split off into its own complete license.

So for a while at least the use-in-stock has gone, and from the sounds of this discussion so far this is going to mean a lot more informal arrangements with CC authors. I know this was already on the agenda for the licensing team, but we will definitely make sure its top-of-mind for the next phase.

As I mentioned in the post, licensing is surprisingly complicated, and part of that was our old ext licenses. I think this is a big step in the right long term direction for the licenses!

brainbuzzmedia said

LanceSnider said
You are no longer able to buy items from the Envato marketplaces and use them in themes for sale, whether the themes you sell are GPL or not.

In Collis’ post about the new policy he says

“If you’re an author and want to use another author’s item in your larger stock item (as part of the download) it is still possible to make your own informal direct arrangements with the other author.”

What does this mean, exactly? If we want to include “X” slider plugin in a wordpress theme like 90% of themes have, instead of buying the slider plugin on codecanyon as an extended license we have to contact its author and arrange an amount and license write up outside of themeforest/codecanyon? How will this even be regulated to ensure authors actually have the plugin creator’s permission?

Hum this is getting confusing! So if I want to use something from CC in a theme, do I have to ask the author? Or is this no longer allowed? If it is then how do we prove to the reviewers that we can use it? It’s going to create a lot more work for CC authors and surely they will lose out?

josweb said
Hum this is getting confusing! So if I want to use something from CC in a theme, do I have to ask the author? Or is this no longer allowed? If it is then how do we prove to the reviewers that we can use it? It’s going to create a lot more work for CC authors and surely they will lose out?

I would suggest to ask an author if he would be such kind and could send a ticket with agreement that he give permission to use his plugin in your theme. Then you can paste ticket ID in message to a reviewer.

Personally I think that new licensing won’t hit (but makes things more complicated) in CodeCanyon or ThemeForest authors, because I’m pretty sure that all CodeCanyon authors which sell plugins with Extended License will give permission without any complications.