LeatherwingStudios
LeatherwingStudios Recent Posts Threads Started
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LeatherwingStudios says
i believe that the cost savings shouldn’t hurt the designer since we didn’t set the pricing scheme.

I believe that the cost savings shouldn’t hurt the buyer since we didn’t set the pricing scheme. :)

LeatherwingStudios
LeatherwingStudios Recent Posts Threads Started
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LeatherwingStudios says
When you’re an author of lets say a pre-loader, I think it’s quite un-ethical to sell it for single use.

This is a good point. And I think there is some confusion here at FD over what should and should not be single use. IMHO anything that is basic and utilitarian, like a scrollbar, should not need to be purchased every time you use it. And I base that opinion on the industry standard that lets me buy components like scrollbars for Flash, Visual Studio and lots of other environments. And in none of those cases do you have to buy the scrollbar over and over.

Heck, Flash comes with scrollbar components. Imagine if Adobe wanted a fee every time you used those scrollbars! Kinda absurd really.

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LucidStudios says
When you’re an author of lets say a pre-loader, I think it’s quite un-ethical to sell it for single use.

This is a good point. And I think there is some confusion here at FD over what should and should not be single use. IMHO anything that is basic and utilitarian, like a scrollbar, should not need to be purchased every time you use it. And I base that opinion on the industry standard that lets me buy components like scrollbars for Flash, Visual Studio and lots of other environments. And in none of those cases do you have to buy the scrollbar over and over.

Heck, Flash comes with scrollbar components. Imagine if Adobe wanted a fee every time you used those scrollbars! Kinda absurd really.

SimpelJim! You talk too much about standards but which standard you are talking about?

It is all about marketing, flash would come with a lot more pre-built components but not now because adobe’s marketing strategy has changed and they removed many those components from flash because they want to sell flex now.

You cannot expect authors giving their files for free ;)

LeatherwingStudios
LeatherwingStudios Recent Posts Threads Started
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LeatherwingStudios says
You cannot expect authors giving their files for free ;)

I really don’t expect them to do that. but for an author to expect anyone to pay them over and over for something basic like a scrollbar is unrealistic. regardless of what we agree on in this discussion I do not believe anyone will ever be successful depending on repeat sales of simple items like scrollbars. ain’t gonna happen!

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MDNW says

Just curious – I haven’t personally sold any 10x licenses yet on any of my products (and I’ve probably sold between 60 and 80 products since they were introduced) – is anyone out there selling these ‘premium’ licenses at a higher rate?

It’s my guess that a lot of buyers simply disregard the rules of single-use licenses… leading me to think that the 10x license idea is great, but it still lacks any incentive to draw any serious sales except for the rare good Samaritan.

Anyone have different experiences with the 10x license so far?

Also – It might have been mentioned here, but I’m super curious to hear more details about these new license options that’ll be coming out soon (Web Services, etc.). Is there a scheduled release for any of these?

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MDNW says
You cannot expect authors giving their files for free ;)
I really don’t expect them to do that. but for an author to expect anyone to pay them over and over for something basic like a scrollbar is unrealistic. regardless of what we agree on in this discussion I do not believe anyone will ever be successful depending on repeat sales of simple items like scrollbars. ain’t gonna happen!

SimpleJim actually has a good point (although so far he’s seemed to ruffle quite a few feathers, hehe). I’m usually an author-advocate here on the forums, but in this case I think there is something to be said for the single-use license model being a little inflexible.

Single use on something like a full site template is totally realistic (even though it’s almost impossible to track) – but when it comes down to little ‘component’ type products that invite repeated use as a small part of a larger project (like my Web UI Toolkit ), it seems strange to expect a user to buy it over and over again. If I had to pay for every time I use my favorite scrollbar, form field style, or tooltip, I’d go bankrupt. Good thing I designed them myself I suppose…

I honestly don’t have any recommendations, but there is something to be said for differentiating between products of a “component nature” and products that more resemble a “complete website”.

Side note: This whole conversation is strangely reminiscent of MP3 sales at the dawn of the internetz.

LeatherwingStudios
LeatherwingStudios Recent Posts Threads Started
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LeatherwingStudios says

@epicera – I love your web ui toolkit! Bookmarked!! I have never perused Graphic River before…guess I’ll have to spend more time (and money) over there now.

(like your avatar too!)

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john says
Great! Also it would be helpful if the number of “10 Project” and “Web Services” purchases showed somewhere (may be in the portfolio page). At present, we have no idea about how many multi license purchases made for an item. (it is very hard to calculate from statements page)

We do track that data so we’ll try and figure out a nice way to present it and deploy it sometime next week when we’re back in the office.

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thomas07 says

epicera made valid points…i dont think any type of graphic item can use the new licences system. I am going to list items that cannot use any other lcence type as the “single licence” use seen from business ethics perespective and other restrictions like “Royalty-Free Image” licence (dont forget that this is an official licence type for any tipe of images offered here and on any other “stock imamge ” sites!!). When reading below, also always keep in mind that envato is community driven content platform!!

Single use licence MUST APPLY :

any graphics…this means NONE of the GraphicRiver items can be offered under other licence types but only the “single licence”!! Royalty Free licence apply!!

web templates…any type of web templates, wordpress themes, flash gallery, flash slide show and image rotators, flash site templates, HTML templates, Photoshop templates can be offered only under “single use licence”. Royalty Free licence apply since envato sites are user content generated platforms, just like stock templates sites (if i must give an example check templatemonster). Licences other than “single use” maybe offered only under different agreement and conditions between the author and envato. Here envato must have an additional agreement signedup with the author for this licence!! What does this mean?...simple, there can be a licence like Unique Purchaise which will grand full rights to the buyer and that template get removed from the marketplace for further distribution since the purchaised item has already another owner.

any addons…GraphicRiver have this items under “add-ons” category (i am sure Flashden have them too as a part of software – flash components). Before we make any judgement about this type of items, we must have good understanding of what they are. Add-ons are elements to be used as a part of a software function libraries like Photoshop Flash and Illustrator. This means there must be strict rules about the distribution of this items. Lets say envato offered multiple licence for add-ons…the buyer wont get any use of it, the 10 licence at such items is useless. Licences that can apply for add-ons are single purchaise which gives the buyer right to use the item on a single software instal (just like the software licence itself). Example, if you purchaised Adobe Photoshop, the licence restrict you to use this licence only on a single machine…same apply for add-on items sold here on GraphicRiver. Other licence type that can apply for add-ons is unique purchaise. This means the buyer can purchaise an add-on (lets say a set of photoshop brushes) with this licence and the buyer becomes the owner of this item with all its rights. Full copyrights are granded to the buyer, and the item get removed from envato libraries forever. Then the buyer is free to do anything with the file they purchaised under unique purchaise licence…they may further distribute it, resell, give it free away, share the way they wish.

Fianly, we all understand that this new licencing improvements on envato sites are to increase sales and make authors and envato benefit better. But when this licences rules are still “in the kitchen” mode, here envato must think very good when they state the rules of the game. When we signup, we agree to their terms and is nothing wrong there, but this apply only to make some changes/additions to already existing licence type (single purchaise). Here is where envato hit the wall, for new licence types envato must have a new/additional agreement between them and the author. Right now the 40% – 60% share apply only for the existing licence and i am not sure they can keep it the same for new licences like single purchaise (or “web service” as they name it). Me personaly, i wont be happy with that % for this type of licence since i can sell my item else where under such licence at much better rates and bigger % for my part. I personaly see envato as a leading company in this market for some type of templates like WordPress themes. The Flashsite templates library of envato is also great, but there are already to many similar sites that offer the same quality (or even better).

Considering this, i assume and expect envato to follow the world market standards when pricing such licences like web services (unique purchaise). Lerst say a wordpress theme template…there are themes available in the $10 – $30 range. In a situation of theme that cost $30 as a single licence, the web licence (or unique purchaise) schould be not less than $2000. At such licences envato need to have an better offer to the author as income % ...lets say the revenue sharing in such cases cannot be less than 70% for the author…other wise i dont see a reason to sell my stuff and transfer all rights to someone for a burger money.

There are actually many points envato must consider when making such plans. Such plans mostly effect the “middle man” and are not for their benefit at all. Authors dont want to be cheap sold…and buyers dont want to pay abnormal rates for full rights. Finaly, if envato want to offer such licences, they must be prepared to make less from it and benefit the author…thats all i can say.

Seen from a buyer perespective, the rules of the game are clear…your deal is with envato and not the author. Note that envato marketplace items have the best rates on the design market (access to cool files for small $). I am author at some other big stock sites and their prices cannot be considered with envato items costs…so buyers here on envato have big advantages!! If you say “i want to be the only one who own this file”, then you will need to purchaise the file under unique purchaise licence and you can do with this file whatever you wish. If you say “no, i actually prefere to pay small amounds each time i use this file”, then you will need to purchaise your file under the already existing single use licence and come back each time to show honesty…this are the game rules and i feel Envato schould stay away from trying to soften this rules which are actually not for the author benefit but only for them self…thats what i think.

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thomas07 says

...just a quick addition to the “add-ons” matter:

Since the usage purpose of addons is just different as any other item available on envato marketplaces, i personaly feel the cost of add-ons must have a little different prices. Atleast a price with 2 digits and the first number not to be lower than “3”...basically add-on items here on envato are sold at abnormal low price, not sure how the rewirers judge this files…as an “graphic” or “software addon function/element” ?

Note that add-ons are a part of software functionaly and there is no way to follow on the usage of them. Example, an “photoshop brush set”...can be used to produce 100’s of different backgrounds and submited here on envato into the “backgrounds” or “textures” category. Basically add-ons are software utility to help improve visuality of creaton and create full unique art form scratch. Thats why reviewers for add-ons must have an better understanding of add-on items and price them accordingly.

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