1793 posts Don't Worry, Be Happy
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Located in United States
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
+8 more
FinalDestiny says

Envato Approach to Sales Reversals FAILED. Because those peoples are STILL getting everything for FREE. I am selling on other marketplaces too but never saw this kind of failure there.

I don’t get most of the people here. the problem IS NOT WITH ENVATO, THEY CAN’T DO ANYTHING. The reversals are BECAUSE OF THE PAYMENT PROCESSORS. I’d have a really bad time explaining this over and over again if I would have been part of Envato staff, it’s like explaining to a customer he can’t install a joomla theme in WordPress.

The only thing left is now to accuse Envato for not being able to handle with illegal downloads of the themes. Almost any theme here can be downloaded from the warez websites and it’s exactly the same thing as getting it from ThemeForest and then getting the money back.

11 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 4 years
  • Has collected 10+ items on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
RechargeMedia says

I’ve been following this thread (and the ensuing aftermath) with interest. I’m a new author and have been working on my first item – albeit grandiose – that I plan to post to Codecanyon. I’m concerned but not totally scared off.

Some years ago, I was reading Founders at Work (a fantastic book about startups in their early days) and I seem to recall a story about Paypal. They had all sorts of fraud issues, and it took them a great deal of time to address it; some might say they never did because they still have issues.

As a lurking community member on the fringes of “Authordom”, I have recognized that Envato is aware of the issue and taking steps to address it. But I don’t think its too unreasonable to think that while posting my item on Envato marketplaces garners me a fair deal of visibility, I should also be moderately protected from exactly these kinds of fraudulent acts.

If its not terribly bold to ask, what kind of steps can we expect to see from the cats at Envato to address these issues? Are there any data-mining techniques that you plan to apply to identify fraudulent patterns, or perhaps third-party software? Have you corresponded with the payment processors to discover what further steps you can take? Have you considered billing address & IP comparison, or detected anonymous proxies? Are there any indications of high-risk patterns or countries of origin?

Either way, I hope to complete my rather daunting project sometime in the near future. If nothing else, at least I’ll be able to vent my frustration too! But hopefully not.

66 posts WordPress Themes Like Never Before
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $250,000+ on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
+8 more
Astoundify says

Anyone using BBPress and need to validate customers purchases using the purchase keys, we have created a plugin that will do that and allow them access to the BBPress when they have a valid purchase key, if their key is revoked after a sales reversal there BBPress account will be blocked, this is the next feature we are adding :)

219 posts
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 3 years
  • Has sold $40,000+ on Envato Market
  • Helped several times protecting Envato Market against copyright violations
+4 more
SurStudio says

Anyone using BBPress and need to validate customers purchases using the purchase keys, we have created a plugin that will do that and allow them access to the BBPress when they have a valid purchase key, if their key is revoked after a sales reversal there BBPress account will be blocked, this is the next feature we are adding :)

This Sale Reversal lack of info reminds me to Internet Explorer. I mean, we needed to come up with hacks and tricks, and spend time to overcome childish and irrational bugs and issues. Envato could just inform the revoked Item Purchase Code. See how much time and effort is wasted, when the solution is so simple… :confusedsad:

52 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 3 years
  • Has referred 1+ members
  • Has sold $10,000+ on Envato Market
  • Has been a beta tester for an Envato feature
+2 more
bluelagoon says
The only thing I want to say is that, morally, it make no sense for me to support loses of any type of scam made against envato. My “duties” are to create items for the marketplace (in my case exclusive items). I’m not obligated to deal with the buyers in any way, this is envato job. Even if I want to deal with buyers I can’t because envato hides them from me.

You said a “sale reversal” is not a real sale, yet my item is downloaded. From my point of view the sale was made and the marketplace failed to protect my item. Envato lost nothing, I’ve lost the item I put on the marketplace.

At this moment, any type of sale I make on envato can disappear with no warning at any time. This is really frustrating and the fact that envato have no problem announcing they don’t even investigate those issues because they cost them money is insulting.

+1 The reason I use Envato with an exclusive account instead of just opening my own store is just exactly not having to deal with this. This is the reason Envato is taking a share of the profits (and kind of a big one if you ask me) from the authors and I feel they’re starting to diss their responsibilities.
293 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 2 years
  • Has referred 1+ members
  • Has sold $1,000+ on Envato Market
  • Has collected 10+ items on Envato Market
+1 more
Deep_Blue says

I had 2 sale reversals recently :( and I know that the buyer took them as freebies.

What about forcing buyers to upload credit rather than paying directly from paypal or visa, will this make a difference?

1793 posts Don't Worry, Be Happy
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Located in United States
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
+8 more
FinalDestiny says

I had 2 sale reversals recently :( and I know that the buyer took them as freebies. What about forcing buyers to upload credit rather than paying directly from paypal or visa, will this make a difference?

Yea, sure, great idea, removing paypal support and getting less than 40% of the current number of sales and no reversals, GREAT IDEA, I wonder how could you come up with something as brilliant as this.

Some of you are better with 0 sales and 0 sales reversals rather than 10 sales and 2 reversals.

I’m wondering why mostly only the authors with at most 1-5k earned on the marketplaces are constantly complaining about it instead of some of the authors that really lose significant amounts of money every month due to reversals and still understand that there’s not much anyone can do

@bluelagoon Envato is not taking your share to cover sale reversals, all your sales are generated by Envato, without Envato you wouldn’t have not even one customer, you can open your own market and sell your tracks and you’ll see how hard is to bring customers and to handle them. It’s very easy to talk about how easy it would be to open your own marketplace and that Envato doesn’t help you at all, but have you even tried it? Try it and you’ll see how fast you’ll come back to Envato again.

6028 posts
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $125,000+ on Envato Market
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 6 years
+8 more
VF says

Try it and you’ll see how fast you’ll come back to Envato again.

I see your point but this is too harsh saying “try your own and you will fail”. This is unnecessary point of view here and please have some respect towards creators and their worries. Personally I am convinced about the fact that reversals deserves to be made through individual item’s earnings instead of pulling it from Envato’s pocket – so right now things are fine. Also there are many marketplaces having reversal setup for many years, so this is nothing new.

But one thing I am not convinced is whether Envato takes necessary steps to understand if there are underlying pattern with those reversals. For example, it could be those pirates who might be evolved to get connection with card hackers and manages to download our files using fraudulent cards. As of now authors don’t have ways to detect this in case this is what majorly going on.

Also please stop pointing about the fact that authors can’t easily run their own shops. If there was no “Envato” or similar ones, probably opening individual shops might be a easy and profitable. But with exclusivity programs, Envato and similar ones become an assembly of rich content, more attractive and so obviously it is difficult to open individual shops against these attractions. I mean we better don’t go this kind of point of views as it wont give solution for any problem.

1793 posts Don't Worry, Be Happy
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Located in United States
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
+8 more
FinalDestiny says

The problem is not with Envato, but with PayPal because they allow such payments.

Let’s say you run a shop. Buyer X hacks a credit card, buys your item(there’s no way to detect if a user hacked an account or not if he knows every little detail about it) and then, after a few days, the original credit card holder comes and notices that a hacker took money from his credit card. Obviously, he fills a claim, gets the money back and the shop owner gets nothing.

Tell me, how can you prevent this? Of course there are ways, calling the original card owner to confirm every purchase that doesn’t look legit, but this is obviously NOT user-friendly. Checking the IP / OS and similar details still may not work fine, nowadays buyers buy stuff from their phones / tablets / laptops, from home / work or even from a public cafe. So, again, how do you prevent it without annoying the user everytime? And blocking legitimate transactions just to check them?

On Envato, except a few cases(maybe max 5), the sales reversals are actually a very low percentage of the sales, I’d rather have 100 sales and 5 reversals than 50 sales and 0 reversals.

People can get our work for free on the web without any problem, if he gets it from Envato directly or from a pirate website, doesn’t really make a difference.

And about running shops, it’s definitely NOT easy if you don’t have a budget. We’re both elite, probably we could invest those 30% in advertising and get customers, but for photodune, audiojungle, graphicriver, I highly doubt it’s easy to run a store with just one user’s items. And to get actual sales and customers at a decent level, compared to Envato.

52 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 3 years
  • Has referred 1+ members
  • Has sold $10,000+ on Envato Market
  • Has been a beta tester for an Envato feature
+2 more
bluelagoon says

@FinalDestiny You are elite and until recently you haven’t experienced reversals because Envato took care of it for you. If you weren’t elite you would probably see things a little different, having a cut of 50% instead of 70%.

Let’s make something clear, I am NOT against refunds!

The reason I use Envato exclusively is because of the system, author’s job is to produce top quality content (that’s what he/she brings to the table) and Envato’s job is to implement their system on selling said content (that’s what Envato brings to the table). Authors get a cut from the sales for their content, if said content is faulty the author offers support and refunds which I’m perfectly ok with (even though with said system in place faulty content shouldn’t be up in the first place), If the system has a loophole it’s not the authors fault, it’s the system that is broken. Now, I am ok with the idea that it’s a very complex system problem but I am not ok with the idea that no one is even TRYING to fix it resting on the idea that oh well, such is life. We, authors, don’t know how to fix it, if we knew we’d probably all be Envato staff by now, but that’s the thing, we’re authors, our job is to offer top quality content, not to fix the system.

Now, about the opening of one’s own shop, I’m not a big fan of the if you don’t like how we do things why don’t you do it better retort and I never said it would be easy but I honestly think it wouldn’t be as hard as you imagine it, now I’m going to stop that idea here because that’s a totally different topic on it’s own that I don’t want to get into.

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