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segen says

Whatever, degradable or not, JS enabled or not. I think it’s up to authors to decide to include the feature or not.

What my main occupation in this thread was the Web standards and how this would be regulated here on TF. I’m still the opinion that TF has great quality as the whole Envato Marketplace.

Btw. this is by far the interesting thread here at TF forum, do You think?

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jremick Envato team says

The 5% that don’t have JS either available to them or turned on are not the crowd I want to market to. Plus, they do have JS available to them. They can go upgrade their browser or system like the rest of the world.

What this comes down to is opinion. An author has a choice not to support IE 6 or other browsers if they choose and yet they are still given the opportunity to make money for their work. JS is the same. If they choose not to support degrading JS, that is their choice and they should still have the opportunity to make money for their work.

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CreatingDrew says

Just to give my two cents that no one asked for in this debate :)

I think any developer that uses JS should have it degrade gracefully. Its not hard and doesnt take much time if you plan it out. In addition, I think code should also meet web standards (except in cases where css3 features or the like are used to enhance the theme). This site sells premium templates, not free themes. Premium templates means premium and quality code to me.

The 5% that don’t have JS either available to them or turned on are not the crowd I want to market to. Plus, they do have JS available to them. They can go upgrade their browser or system like the rest of the world.

I really disagree with this. There are a lot of web savvy users that surf with JS off and could be looking for a nice theme for their web site. They will expect it to work without JS. You may not want to cater to them, but that 5 percent is still millions and millions of users you are turning away.

At the very least, I think the customer has the right to know before the purchase if the site wont function with JS disabled. If they arent very web savvy, shouldnt developers be up front with them and tell them it wont work how they expect without JS?

Just my opinion :)

Drew

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JimmyP says

Segen and xmdsys, you’re both right, it is the authors decision. Every author has the power to decide what his/her template will be capable of, but as you should know, with power comes responsibility! You, as web developers, have a responsibility to create usable websites accessible to as many people as possible, this should be obvious.

Xmdsys, I find your understand of this issue quite shallow (no offence). I’d say the majority of people who have JS disabled either have no choice (behind corporate firewalls etc.), are very web savvy (using plugins like noScript) or are using a screen reader of some type (only some screen readers support JS). The majority cannot just “upgrade their browser or system”! You’re right, every author has the choice to NOT care, maybe a line should be drawn though, so that authors are more inclined to care. Plus, who cares who you want to market to? – your not the person who decides what your templates will be used for – who’s to say one of your templates is not bought by a retailer selling goods to disabled people? – will they be able to access your content if they’re using a screen reader? Do you care?

I wouldn’t mind if a reviewer would drop in and give their insight into this particular topic… :)

CreatingDrew, I agree 100%! Theme Forest sells premium templates, so rubbish like non-degrading JavaScript and using tables for layout should not be approved. Period.

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Kriesi says

Coding table-less in valid css and html (except for css3 features) is something which I consider a duty. I would never buy a theme created with tables, since even editing the smallest portions is really annoying.

Creating fall back scenarios for turned of javascript is something which is not entirely necessary, but I always do it. Its helping themeforest getting reputation as a service with real premium themes, and it really helps selling themes.

My themes do sell pretty good and I got asked several times now If the Javascript degrades gracefully. If I had to deny this I guess I would have lost around 10-15 “customers”

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rblalock says

I used to think that having JS degrade gracefully was a waiste of time….until I started watching how people navigate websites (especially those with slow computers, internet connections…..and….IE6).

What I’ve found is people often don’t wait for the JS to load, before clicking on something (they don’t even know it’s loading most the time). So, if the JS is the only way certain things work….the user instantly feels frustrated when he prematurely clicks on something. I’ve seen some things, where JS hasn’t loaded quick enough, go to a blank page or even worse things like freeze the page. Even if you’re preloading the javascript, using a library like jQuery, etc., this can still be an issue.

The issue with degradability isn’t just about if JS is enabled or disabled.

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