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familychoice says

It will take a long time for any marketplace to catch up with here in terms of choice/number of themes etc

The problem with the marketplace model is that they don’t actually make anything themselves, so they don’t have any stock, and as they’re not providing support or an updating service to customers there’s no tie-in or reason for customer loyalty. Customers buy here because they like the products, but if another marketplace pops up offering the same authors and customers a better deal then they will flock there instead, or if top authors set-up their own sites, as some already do, some customers might prefer to buy direct.

We buy here because of the products – originally it was because we thought we’d get more protection with potentially bad purchases but that isn’t the case. If another marketplace opens and authors start selling there then there’s no reason not to use it.

There’s no ‘added value’ here, and reading some of the author threads I don’t always notice a massive amount of loyalty there either.


The big issue with site builders (they cited W?X or even using the likes of Gen?s?s) is that the simple fact is many people using these types of files/marketplaces (NOT ALL – I appreciate there are some “professional” agencies that use them for cheap projects) have very little visualization, design or tech skills.

G-- (not sure why I’m hiding this as they sell it’s child themes here, but anyway…) isn’t a sitebuilder, it’s a framework, and a very good one. The available themes aren’t as excitingly designed as those on Themeforest but a good designer can build an excellent child theme using plugins and G-- as a base. I think you’d be surprised how many companies use them, but you’d have no idea looking at the finished sites, and it’s much easier to keep everything updated as all the core functionality is provided by the framework. If you’ve built 200 customer sites with it then you can update the whole lot by a simple click in the admin. Try doing that with 200 different TF author themes and see what happens…


i bet that novice users will still struggle and if the user cannot create something that works/looks good it will be a mistake whereas here at least there is some form of pre made look/feel that at very worst resembles a passable looking site and in some cases very high end layouts.

In the short term, but if authors aren’t updating their products then at some stage novice buyers and customers who have a very small budget will start complaining about the longevity of their purchase.

We don’t use pre-built themes for budget jobs now, it’s not a viable solution. We do use them for our own personal projects though, as we can tweak them if we need to and throw them away after a year in favour of the latest flashy theme. Other types of businesses don’t have this option though, and they’re investing a lot of their time and money in a single product that they expect will provide them with years of service.


Out of interest – you say you use a framework and add in code canyon files. Genuine question: how is code canyon different from here? If an author stops supporting a plugin form there an update may screw it up just the same as a theme on here? I am not arguing with you on it just curious.

Plugins don’t affect the theme itself or the layout, instead the theme dictates how the plugin appears. If a plugin stops working, or the author disappears then there’s usually an alternative that we can simply drop into the site and with a few tweaks to the CSS get up and running quickly.

I hope you don’t experience it but being left with a big, messy, badly coded theme that’s stopped working and is no longer updated, while the client yells at you because there are problems with their site is not a place we want to revisit. It’s very time consuming working on 50 different set-ups and second guessing how an author has coded their particular theme, and it’s bad for business. We went through a nightmare of a time with a shopping cart theme we purchased for a client with a tight budget. The site was hacked repeatedly due to security issues, theme support was appalling and we had to spend weeks of unbilled time patching up the authors code. We lost the client, naturally, and the author has since vanished, taking any hope of an update with them.

Never again.

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graphic4444 says

I understand authors need to create new products for new income, however authors of Wordpress themes Absolutely should be required to update their themes for full compatibility with new releases of Wordpress at a bare minimum, every time a new WP release gets released, because it needs to stay current for those who paid you for it.

It’s up to authors if they want to add new features, I personally would if I were an author, for any theme that sells pretty well, say over 50 copies, to keep it “alive” and continue to get new buyers.

Buyers should not ask for new features to be added, and that’s a big hassle for authors, for example buyers asking for extra things like social media plugins or stuff that’s not in the original theme, and buyers should be educated on that. Because it takes away author’s valuable time, to respond to ‘feature creep/feature addon requests’, and that’s not good.

It’s a balancing act, I realize authors should’nt have to spend their life responding to all the unique buyer requests if it goes beyond core as-advertised functionality of the theme. That really should be communicated clearly – is “don’t ask authors to help you custom-code some change or new feature to the theme”, as buyers need to realize, “what you get is what you paid for”, as seen on the live preview page.

So both sides can benefit from understanding clear expectations of what is vs what is not included from a support standpoint. At least authors make sure it works as advertised and is updated for current WP versions within 2 weeks of each new WP release, for example.

Tip to buyers, post in forum threads “Does this theme still work correctly with latest Wordpress release version (x) or not?” before buying any theme here, because many currently-for-sale themes may not work properly w/latest WP release – so Ask before buying, or email the author, but check by asking other buyers in the forum thread First.

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familychoice says

I understand authors need to create new products for new income, however authors of Wordpress themes Absolutely should be required to update their themes for full compatibility with new releases of Wordpress at a bare minimum, every time a new WP release gets released, because it needs to stay current for those who paid you for it.

+1

Old themes should also be checked on a regular basis to see if they’re still working correctly – it’s all very well TF checking themes when they’re submitted, but if older themes haven’t been updated properly then buyers could be buying a dud.

As for the balancing act, I think as long as authors are clear about what they’re providing and then stick to this then there shouldn’t be any issues. If authors don’t want queries on general Wordpress issues then make this clear on the sales page – don’t trumpet about fast, free support without clarifying exactly what that covers as some less experienced customers will assume this includes everything. Don’t brag about ‘full, lifetime updates’ and then leave the theme to rot while concentrating on new products. Don’t put a list of ‘included’ commercial plugins with a total of their value and use this to entice buyers if you don’t own a developers license or have the original developers permission.

If we get exactly what we’ve paid for, i.e. what’s listed on the sales page and the product matches the demo then we’re happy bunnies. Don’t want to provide updates? Be clear we’re buying a one-off product and we’ll know where we stand.

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Typps says


Hmmm… 1. If you are using themes for “budget clients” then it really is your responsibility to maintain the theme. This really is end of story.

I think this is the last time I’m going to write this as it’s getting a bit repetitive, but if an author is promoting their product as having regular, unlimited, lifetime updates and support then I’m at a loss why you should think the problem is mine when I’m disappointed this isn’t provided.

If authors aren’t going to provide updates or support – THEN DON’T SHOUT ABOUT OT ON YOUR SALES PAGE. Then there’s no misunderstanding on the part of the customer.


2. I am not aware of a website or theme that lasts a few years without minor to major modification and rigorous maintenance, I think with all due respect your living in cloud cuckooland if you think deploying themes is ftp and forget.

Where did I say that? I’m fully aware that themes require regular updates, but if authors aren’t going to provide what they promote then it’s more cost effective for us to use a framework.


3. You obviously “do care less” by your continued involvement within the thread, don’t take offence. If we lived in a society where everyone was right, then no one would be posting !

I don’t care less that you didn’t believe what I wrote. Obviously I care about the issues in this thread otherwise I wouldn’t be wasting my evening posting.


if you think you can leave a website alone for longer than a month without it requiring updates amazes me.

I’m starting to get the impression that you’re either not reading, or not understanding what I’ve written. Nowhere in any of my posts have I said anything remotely resembling what you’ve just accused me of.


8. 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. With regard to your 25% comment, I think perhaps you are stating global fictitious facts for the purpose of posting replies, rather than thinking thru the practicalities.

So you’re accusing me of lying? I think it’s time for me to stop responding to your comments, I don’t respond to trolling.


most of what you state thus far isnt actual reality, but more the response authors and developers get from disgruntled clients when they mess things up, add mismatched scripting or just get lost in the code.

As above, whatever etc.

A clear case of The lady doth protests too much, methinks!

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familychoice says



Hmmm… 1. If you are using themes for “budget clients” then it really is your responsibility to maintain the theme. This really is end of story.

I think this is the last time I’m going to write this as it’s getting a bit repetitive, but if an author is promoting their product as having regular, unlimited, lifetime updates and support then I’m at a loss why you should think the problem is mine when I’m disappointed this isn’t provided.

If authors aren’t going to provide updates or support – THEN DON’T SHOUT ABOUT OT ON YOUR SALES PAGE. Then there’s no misunderstanding on the part of the customer.


2. I am not aware of a website or theme that lasts a few years without minor to major modification and rigorous maintenance, I think with all due respect your living in cloud cuckooland if you think deploying themes is ftp and forget.

Where did I say that? I’m fully aware that themes require regular updates, but if authors aren’t going to provide what they promote then it’s more cost effective for us to use a framework.


3. You obviously “do care less” by your continued involvement within the thread, don’t take offence. If we lived in a society where everyone was right, then no one would be posting !

I don’t care less that you didn’t believe what I wrote. Obviously I care about the issues in this thread otherwise I wouldn’t be wasting my evening posting.


if you think you can leave a website alone for longer than a month without it requiring updates amazes me.

I’m starting to get the impression that you’re either not reading, or not understanding what I’ve written. Nowhere in any of my posts have I said anything remotely resembling what you’ve just accused me of.


8. 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. With regard to your 25% comment, I think perhaps you are stating global fictitious facts for the purpose of posting replies, rather than thinking thru the practicalities.

So you’re accusing me of lying? I think it’s time for me to stop responding to your comments, I don’t respond to trolling.


most of what you state thus far isnt actual reality, but more the response authors and developers get from disgruntled clients when they mess things up, add mismatched scripting or just get lost in the code.

As above, whatever etc.

A clear case of The lady doth protests too much, methinks!

Another clear case of trolling, methinks.

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AlexFjord says

Thread so far off the topic now. Everyone has had their say. Time to lock MOD?

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crossroad says

@Australia, @Typps

Take it easy. Here’s a song for both you :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1horffGyO0
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Typps says

@Australia, @Typps Take it easy. Here’s a song for both you :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1horffGyO0

haha love that song, thanks :P

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Australia says

OOoh I like ColdPlay cheers :)

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