236 posts Marketplace Developer
  • Has collected 1+ items on Envato Market
  • Member of the Envato Team
  • Located in New Zealand
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 2 years
madlep Envato team says

http://themeforest.net/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&term=one+page

I watch this regularly and I noticed quite a trend, this should be ordered by “best match” but I doubt it’s like that. The first 5-10 positions are always with new items which I doubt they are “best match”. After a few days or sales, they dissapear and go normally in the search. But, after those first positions with new items are filled in, the old items come up. I agree that new items should get exposure as well, but this seems weird as it seems to happen only on certain keywords. And I’m sure not all the new items are really a better choice rather than older but popular items.

So I see some problems here: old items that are stuck with their positions and can’t improve. And, the old items that are getting some boost and then they’re pushed somewhere at the page 5+. I guess those can be improved, but not sure why. I have no idea how can we work and raise our search rank. It looks so random.

This is by design. However, it can always be improved. We’re also looking at making recent sales count more than total sales.

However, “one page” is a ridiculously competitive search term. There are a LOT of items that match. An item has to be pretty special to stay at the top. So the boosting effect, and decay for recent items is more pronounced there.


Maybe, something as simple as the addition of a “new” marker on new files would make the process more apparent. That way, the user will soon notice why apparently less good matches appear so high up in the rankings.

This is a great idea. Will definitely look at that.



Element 3D category on videohive is broken: http://videohive.net/attributes/video_project_requires/element_3_d?sort_by=sortable_at and please set to newest in all category if no search term is given (just a click on category) – not to best match like in the last days.

Hi Madlep,

I have the same problem when accessing the element 3d page. It looks like it’s broken. Also as C_You mentioned, the items in it are not organised in most recent like in other pages.

Yes, Element3D category gives 0 results. I quote another thread here to make clear where the problem is:

The category “ELEMENT 3D” is present, but not works:

 photo Element_3D_zpsb600ed50.jpg photo no_results_zps58ee6430.jpg

Thanks for that. I can see what the problem is: The link from the menu points at the old URL, which gets redirected at the new one. The redirect works, but the value isn’t passed through properly, and the match fails to find any results.

Should get a fix in tomorrow.

It probably makes sense to revert it back to sorting by date rather than relevancy. Will talk about this with the team.

8116 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 5 years
  • Has sold $40,000+ on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
  • Has referred 10+ members
+4 more
doru says

all these test/improvements are great. can you tell us when this testing period is done so we can actually grow in sales if we publish more items instead of publish more items just to lose less percentage of our income each month?

before the team started playing/improving the search I had a constant flow of sales ( at least one a day – with a peak in the middle of the week) Publishing more items increased the sales. Not by much but still it covered the loss of sales of old items and got me above the last month sales. Now is downfall. Buyers can’t find my items, bundles are become more frequent, sales are random.

It hurts because I’ve followed all the guidelines for naming an item, using pertinent tags, not spamming the item description with random words or huge wall of text.

because I’m starting to have enough and seriously thinking in finding a new marketplace to publish new items. I don’t have element 3d files but if I would had them I would be pretty annoyed of the lack of professionalism once again shown up by the development team. There is no excuse for a top level link, accessing from any page on the marketplace to not point where it should.

If someone from the dev team missed from the debug lesson, should be send back to school and learn to verify if the changes he makes actually work as it should.

2302 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 5 years
  • Has referred 1+ members
  • Has sold $40,000+ on Envato Market
  • Interviewed on an Envato blog
+6 more
urbazon says

I am selling less and less videos, as it seems… And with 1300+ footage files in my portfolio (and still growing…) it is a statistical improbability… these days I usually get sales for videos which have already been bought a few times in the past, or at least that’s my impression…

Imho, the whole point of new search functionality was to provide buyers to discover files they need, not to provide yet another place where already popular files will be promoted and those less popular to get buried even more.

I am commenting like this because so far I’ve read in a few occasions that sales are (or are going to be) used to boost search rankings… Why would it matter? If it does matter, buyers should be able to sort by sales and that’s it, why use sales as a default parameter to boost search ranking…?

The same applies to new VS old items – if needed, there should be a sort functionality. I know it might be important for ThemeForest, CodeCanyon, or for AE templates (where newer items use more modern technologies/techniques) but what about music, sound effects, photos, footage…? Does the upload really matter? It can only make things worse imho.

Different marketplace segments should be approached differently, there just can’t be the same pattern for everything anymore… Or am I wrong? Am I missing something?

1959 posts Don't Worry, Be Happy
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Has referred 200+ members
+8 more
FinalDestiny says

Sales affect a ranking for the same reason you’re buying an Asus / Acer / Dell / Apple instead of some new product released by a new company in your country. For the same reason that popular websites rank higher in search engines and everywhere, instead of some website that has quality content but was just released 2 weeks ago. Everyone was new, but you can’t expect someone new to sell in the same way as an elite author. That’s just wrong.

What’s also wrong is that old items released by elite authors rank for non-relevant keywords. That I agree, a business popular theme shouldn’t be in top 10 for “restaurant” or something like that. But I agree that themes with lots of sales should show up at the top rather than showing the new items at the top. They sell like that for a reason. The goal of this market is not to stop popular authors from selling. If you have a quality-product, it will sell itself. I’d bet that more than 50% of the authors that released a popular item didn’t do any promotion themselves.

Just my two cents.

8116 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 5 years
  • Has sold $40,000+ on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
  • Has referred 10+ members
+4 more
doru says

If you have a quality-product, it will sell itself.

This is not true in my opinion, at least on envato marketplaces. The system here is cumbersome to search for items and buyers most of the time end up purchasing an item from the popular item list.

not because those files are better than the rest. just because the other quality files are hard to find.

736 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 2 years
  • Has referred 1+ members
  • Has sold $10,000+ on Envato Market
  • Has been a beta tester for an Envato feature
+2 more
Typps says


If you have a quality-product, it will sell itself.

This is not true in my opinion, at least on envato marketplaces. The system here is cumbersome to search for items and buyers most of the time end up purchasing an item from the popular item list.

not because those files are better than the rest. just because the other quality files are hard to find.

Surely like all the other items, the ones listed in the popular files suffered the same hardships i.e. poor discover-ability as you put it and yet managed to climb the ranks. I am pretty sure quality played a major role combined with demand. An item has to posses both these factors to dominate the popular list.

If you create a high quality niche item (no demand), you’ll have to inevitably do more work marketing it. Creating market demand is a very challenging task. If you care about being on the popular files list or enjoy consistent sales, you’ll have to create items that sell.

8116 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 5 years
  • Has sold $40,000+ on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
  • Has referred 10+ members
+4 more
doru says

what I want is for a clear date when the search had been updated, what item description guidelines we need to follow.

If planned search system features are secret because competition may steal the great ideas developers have, fine by me.

I don’t like the continuous improvement plan. This means continuous playing with search and with my nerves.

anyway this is just me and I’m done, I will wait for an answer on this questions if possible

101 posts
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has sold $75,000+ on Envato Market and is now an Elite Author
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 2 years
+3 more
randomnoise says

In all seriousness though, yes, I have to agree that the results on videohive and audiojungle in particular need some work. They’re harder to index and search on as there is less text data to go on than with things like themes/plugins that are rich in text by their nature. There are a few things that we’re thinking about though.

Hi madlep,

as an audiojungle author I want to comment on your problems indexing music:

I think the main problem is the approach itself. Text search simply is the worst way to search for music. From my point of view a faceted search system can be the only goal here – yet I didn’t hear anything about this topic – apart from several authors (throughout ALL marketplaces) who are asking for it.

When anybody searches for music they have to be able to filter through the database COMBINING several factors like:

  • Genre
  • Instrumentation
  • Mood/Emotion
  • Targeted Film Production Genres
  • Tempo
  • Length (including lenghts for edits of a track)

Of course I can already see the difficulties in making the transition to a faceted search system for audiojungle:

  • Genre categories on audiojungle would need a complete overhaul. (One of the biggest category “Corporate Music” is actually no musical genre at all, maybe a “Mood”.)
  • Instrumentation is not specifically indexed anywhere. Although there is a lot of info on it in item tags and descriptions that could be used.
  • Mood/Emotion – same here… One of the most crucial aspects for buyers, but the info on audiojungle is buried somewhere in item tags and descriptions.
  • Targeted Film Production Genres – again… some info in tags and descriptions here and there – but nothing structured
  • Tempo is metadata that is already there – yet you can’t properly search for it (or COMBINE a min-max duration filter with other metadata)
  • Length is also a problem – since you give us no proper way to let you index additional edits inlcuded in items

So – there’s a vast amount of badly indexed items. And to have a faceted search system the metadata needs to be structured – not only for new items but for all the unstructured info on existing items as well… a huge challenge indeed.

I can only think of two ways to achieve this:

1. You can use the data that is already there: Create a list of genres / instruments / moods etc. and relate items to them by matching the data in tags and descriptions

2. You can ask the authors to provide you with the additional structured info: Let them know that they have a certain amount of time (lets say 3 months) to add the new metadata to their items and let them do the work. (Of course – for me having 24 items at the moment this should be an easy task, yet I can see why authors with huge portfolios will have a different perspective.)

OR – you could work with a combination of both. Re-index the data by matching categories to tags and description terms – and then (before going public with it) letting the authors refine the automated metadata (= Let everyone check and refine what the system proposed).

My point is (regarding music): You can tweak on boosting factors etc. as much as you want – but as long as you don’t start rethinking music search as a whole it will only stay a slightly improved system that is flawed from the ground up.

Can you give us any hint on your progress regarding faceted search? Are you at least actively planning anything like this?

All the best,

randomnoise

236 posts Marketplace Developer
  • Has collected 1+ items on Envato Market
  • Member of the Envato Team
  • Located in New Zealand
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 2 years
madlep Envato team says

I just went through and did a clean up of some of the “+1” type posts. Try to keep posts constructive. If you don’t have anything useful to add (that hasn’t been said already), consider not posting.

The point of this thread is to collect actionable feedback on features/bugs the dev team can do something concrete about to fix. “+1” or “this marketplace will die because of search!” are NOT helping.

I’m working on a fix for the “Element 3D” issue, so I don’t have time to respond to other posts just now. I’ll post a proper update once that’s out of the way though.

(just remember, the same devs you want to make fixes, are the ones whose time gets chewed up if there is a lot of forum noise making it hard to get to the bottom of issues)

188 posts
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Located in Brazil
  • Has sold $10,000+ on Envato Market
  • Helped several times protecting Envato Market against copyright violations
+6 more
DiegoMirnov says

Hi Madlep, Some days ago I sent you this:

“try this: search “race” on VH. Sort by sales. the 1st on the list is “Vintage Opener”. No “race” words or keywords included in this example…” ”...with the new search, if you put lots of tags between commas, or even lots of miscellaneous words you are taking advantage. Not fair at all. So now could i put like 20 words between commas? Thinking this way i could get hundreds of tags.”
Some days ago before the madlep posts I opened a ticket and here is the answer i received:
In this particular case, we (wrongly) decided to treat “race” and “car” as the same thing. “Vintage Opener” mentions “car” in its description. This is why “Vintage Opener” has appeared at the top of the list. Clearly this is not correct! My colleagues are currently fixing this issue as well as addressing some of the other synonyms we’ve implemented.

Ok. But the word car in “vintage Opener” is referred as a link for a media used in it, so basically this project don´t have strict relations with the word “car”. What I am trying to say is even when you fix the synonyms problem, we´ll still have the “not so related words” problem. If this second problem won´t be solved, authors will deliberately write the dictionary in each project description. I always had a special care with the tags. For me, the tags makes you show your work in search area. Thanks for your patience madlep.

Helpful Information

  • Please read our community guidelines. Self promotion and discussion of piracy is not allowed.
  • Open a support ticket if you would like specific help with your account, deposits or purchases.
  • Item Support by authors is optional and may vary. Please see the Support tab on each item page.

Most of all, enjoy your time here. Thank you for being a valued Envato community member.

Post Reply

Format your entry with some basic HTML. Read the Full Details, or here is a refresher:

<strong></strong> to make things bold
<em></em> to emphasize
<ul><li> or <ol><li> to make lists
<h3> or <h4> to make headings
<pre></pre> for code blocks
<code></code> for a few words of code
<a></a> for links
<img> to paste in an image (it'll need to be hosted somewhere else though)
<blockquote></blockquote> to quote somebody

:grin: :shocked: :cry: Complete List of Smiley Codes

by
by
by
by
by
by