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Zeplix says

Bitcoins is nothing new, nor anything special.

I didn’t know about this until about 8 months ago, but then I discovered a TON of these “online currencies”. Apparently they’re quite big in Asia, particularly Japan. Heck, there was even a website working as a currency trading website. Heck, you could even “start” your own currency, so to speak. Which just makes it even more stupid.

It’s beyond silly, to be honest. These online currencies can do nothing that regular money can’t, particularly because they need to be converted FROM “real” currencies. The second they need this, the whole idea goes out the window. In reality, they are nothing more than a stocked up PayPal account.

The only way they have any use, is between other people using this currency. But the world will never (never say never, but lets give a round figure: next 200-500 years) use any single currency, so they will indeed need to be converted. Again, “real” currency comes into the picture.

Some people say “so you can’t track them, so you can’t be taxed”. Well, you can’t track cash either. The whole point is that governments aren’t idiots. They spot that you are using more money than should be possible, with the money you say you have to the government. This will be nothing different.

Honestly, the whole thing just seems like an utterly moot point.


You guys do know that all currency is “just made up”, right?
Money is a bit more complicated than that. That’s how you explain it to children. We also just say “a big rock hit the earth, so all the dinosaurs died”, but that’s an extreme simplification too.

:D apparently is how most of the currency actually works right now. some people insert a lot of money, dollars euro whatever, on the market. Are you able to say from where those money come? From the banks? And the banks get them from where?

Wow… yeah ok. No, that’s not how currency works. The banks HAVE the money. They don’t just “print it” or “take it out of nowhere”. Yes, you CAN track that money, if indeed you wanted to. If I deposit 100kroner into a Japanese bank, I’ll get around 2300yen back. Now the bank has some of my kroner, and I have some of their yen. Now, lets say they know TONS of people that want to exchange money for yen, but very few people that want to exchange money for kroner. Then I get less yen for my kroner, because they know people are less interested in my kroner, than their yen. That’s how exchange rates work. And also how “money comes out of nowhere”. Money never comes out of nowhere.

Governments also (usually) don’t just print new money, because it results in inflation. Infact, the Japanese government has been trying to print money to lower their yen, to try to better their dying economy. Though that’s generally not a good idea, since such inflation has a habit of not really stopping once it’s started.

I’ve started sidetracking now though. Point is, money don’t come out of nowhere.

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doru says

Some people say “so you can’t track them, so you can’t be taxed”.

all transaction made in bitcoin can be viewed and tracked. A paypal transaction between me and you for example can be seen by the government if they request the logs from paypal but a third person will not know that we made that transaction. In bitcoins everyone can see that we made the transfer of the money. Don’t know if this level of transparency is a good thing or not but that’s how bitcoins works. Is very ironic that bitcoins system is accused of not being transparent and is compared with the “transparency” of normal bank transactions.



:D apparently is how most of the currency actually works right now. some people insert a lot of money, dollars euro whatever, on the market. Are you able to say from where those money come? From the banks? And the banks get them from where?
Wow… yeah ok. No, that’s not how currency works. The banks HAVE the money. They don’t just “print it” or “take it out of nowhere”. Yes, you CAN track that money, if indeed you wanted to.

Actually you are wrong, the system is off course different from country to country but the money are printed on the fly without that value being covered by gold for example. And in many cases who prints that money is not the state but private banks. This is especially true for usdolars and euro. Is a complex argument that can’t be touched in a few words here, but if you want to know more you need to make some research on how Federal reserve, European central bank or the world bank actually works.

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Zeplix says



:D apparently is how most of the currency actually works right now. some people insert a lot of money, dollars euro whatever, on the market. Are you able to say from where those money come? From the banks? And the banks get them from where?
Wow… yeah ok. No, that’s not how currency works. The banks HAVE the money. They don’t just “print it” or “take it out of nowhere”. Yes, you CAN track that money, if indeed you wanted to.
Actually you are wrong, the system is off course different from country to country but the money are printed on the fly without that value being covered by gold for example. And in many cases who prints that money is not the state but private banks. This is especially true for usdolars and euro. Is a complex argument that can’t be touched in a few words here, but if you want to know more you need to make some research on how Federal reserve, European central bank or the world bank actually works.

I’m not entirely sure what you mean here… are you saying that when you go to a bank, to get some money, you think they go down into their secret basement and turn on their money machine?

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Firsh says

Afaik printed money makes up a low percentage of the total amount of each currency. Most of the money only exists in electronic form. Whether or not it’s covered by gold, is another story.

The problem with bitcoin is (as far as I understand), is the company sells chips (like in a casino, but virtual) without the ability to turn them back into real money? Or can you? If you can, then it’s better, but not by much. So it’s good for you if you just want to KNOW you have the chips and play with it, trade for something else. So, if they don’t let you convert it back to IRL currency, from that point they don’t care what happens with your chips. It’s like WOW gold. It has a certain value in a different world.

It can easily be contolled by supply and demand, and since it doesn’t have a total volume that big as of a country, it’s much more susceptible to manipulation. You buy something one day for 100bitcoins, and the seller might not buy something he wants with your 100bc because in the meantime the value lowered by 30% for example and they have to pay more than they wanted to pay for a 100 bitcoins product or service. So on the long run, people will take losses. It’s as good as buying tree leaves or grains of sand from your money while making somebody pretty rich who actually takes your real money and gives play money in return.

I’m active on the foreing exchange and I understand well what makes currencies’ value fluctuate. I can’t take bitcoins seriously. And using it solely to evade tax is silly because it’s not real money. Then what are you talking about? If you don’t want to give back to your government (I’m sure you already do if you work locally or just by buying anything in your country then you pay them VAT ), there are many legal options to take your money offshore. Or if you are in the EU you don’t need to pay (that much) VAT if you import from another EU member country. I’ve recently bought logitech stuff from the Netherlands that had something like 10% VAT compared to my country’s 25%! The shipping is free, there are no customs duties because it’s from the EU, then tell me a reason why should I buy stuff in my country other than bread and potatoes? Possibly with a debit card that’s issued by a forex broker (eventually an offshore money institute). Some of them are even safer than keeping your money in your country. And you can forget about monthly account fees and silly interest rates of banks.. 2% p.a.? That’s the best without a bond here..

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rarepearldesign says

Governments will ban them, PayPal and Credit Card companies are already putting a stop to buying them using their services.

Bitcoins are a load of horse poop. I predict failure.

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doru says

I’m not entirely sure what you mean here… are you saying that when you go to a bank, to get some money, you think they go down into their secret basement and turn on their money machine?

is simplistic and funny how you write it there, but yep they just print or insert some electronic money in the system without no real control from the people who actually use those money.

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Joost Volunteer moderator says


I’m not entirely sure what you mean here… are you saying that when you go to a bank, to get some money, you think they go down into their secret basement and turn on their money machine?
is simplistic and funny how you write it there, but yep they just print or insert some electronic money in the system without no real control from the people who actually use those money.

That’s not quite true, though. Commercial banks lent the money from the Federal Bank (in the US) or the European Central Bank (EU). Those (noncommercial) institutes are capable of printing extra money or buying money off the market in order to intervene with exchange rates when they are about to get out of hand – at the risk of inflation, of course.

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Zeplix says


I’m not entirely sure what you mean here… are you saying that when you go to a bank, to get some money, you think they go down into their secret basement and turn on their money machine?
is simplistic and funny how you write it there, but yep they just print or insert some electronic money in the system without no real control from the people who actually use those money.

Uhm… no they don’t. Banks can’t print money. Very few (noncommercial) institutes around the world can do that.

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doru says

Uhm… no they don’t. Banks can’t print money. Very few (noncommercial) institutes around the world can do that.

European Central … Bank, Federal … Bank :) they are called banks, no? :D


That’s not quite true, though. Commercial banks lent the money from the Federal Bank (in the US) or the European Central Bank (EU). Those (noncommercial) institutes are capable of printing extra money or buying money off the market in order to intervene with exchange rates when they are about to get out of hand – at the risk of inflation, of course.

are you sure those “noncommercial” institutes are really noncommercial? Or better, private?

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hansv says

... cool topic. Lets just start our own currency here at the marketplaces. with 797 000 Members, we would have a great start :)

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