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ThemeFusion says



Can we bundle required plugins in a separate folder and let users upload them individually? Or this is a space-mission task for users?
Yes, you can. :)

Great. One of the reasons that I don’t want to use TGMPA is because everyone can download the zip files from my theme if they know the location. For “pirates” is enough to share one link in a public forum and we become, or to be precise, buyers becomes a distributor of ilegal plugin copies. If someone have a solution of how to forbid direct download then I will use this TGMPA for sure.

I am with you on this one, I know for a fact that slider developers on CC do not like that. We were stopped once because it did mean distributing the plugin. Users can copy the zip file and install it with other themes, but in a different scenario, anyone with half knowledge of PHP can copy folder from our current themes and make it work with their own if they want to.

We’ll have to talk to the individual plugin developers and deal with this or a relaxation in this regard can be expected from within the TF rules on a case-by-case basis.

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JonnyShogun says

What is going to stop another developer or user from stealing your code that you put in a plugin, and use it in another Theme? So all your hard work can be easily stolen by making all these fetures of your theme made into a plugin? This is very troubling, How will we be protected from this?

And how will Admin Slider Options be treated, if my slider options are made into a plugin? ...they can easily be available for use in someones theme, and is ripe fro misuse!

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Japh says

Regarding widgets, I have placed all my custom widgets into a plugin.. But i have 3 widgets that i made that are dependent on data from my admin options. My contact info widget, my social widget, and my twitter widget. Basically in the widgets page the user just drags the widget over to the position they want it in, and the configuration info is in my admin options page, with links in those widgets displaing links to my admin page to configure. So those widgets i didn’t include in the plugin since they depend on data that is specific to the admin options i have in my theme. And those widgets share files that only available in my theme so i dont have duplicate code.

Will that be Ok, that these widgets are not included with my other widgets inside a plugin since the info from those widgets are dependent from my themes admin options?

This would be at the discretion of the reviewer. It’s difficult to answer this one, as I don’t know why your Twitter widget would be dependent on your admin options.


Is there any news on plugin authors being able to offer plugin licences for developers to use on multiple/unlimited sites?

No news yet, sorry.


So, why shortcodes must be in plugin? Shortcodes like dropcap, buttons, tables, columns, boxes etc. it’s all visual elements, not functional. They don’t provide any functionality, they just look.

Because the nature of shortcode implementation itself is functionality, and can impact the content of a WordPress install.


While reading this thread I can’t resist a feeling that envato market became slavish and dependend on various permisions instead of being free. Every post looks like “can I do this or that”, “is that allowed?”. Does it really matter to constantly ask for permisions to do anything instead of focusing on customer requirements?

I’m sorry you feel this way. I look at it like this: before, authors submitted themes without having a clear idea of what requirements reviewers were looking for; now the requirements are public, and authors are asking for clarifications based on these public requirements.

It wasn’t easy to ask “can I do this or that” or “is that allowed?” before, because the requirements weren’t known.

The situation hasn’t changed, besides increased transparency, which I would think is a good change.


Can we bundle required plugins in a separate folder and let users upload them individually? Or this is a space-mission task for users?

I would expect that could be a space mission that results in more support enquiries than if you used something like TGMPA to prompt users to do it through an interface.

You certainly could do it that way though :)


The big thing is that you can write something simpler to handle what you need. Otto has a great tutorial on this: http://ottopress.com/2012/themeplugin-dependencies/ Another thing is that writing competing code can often spur innovation. Many developers are interested in plugin/theme dependency these days, especially with things like CPTs, so limiting devs to using one class can actually stifle innovation in this area. Obviously, you’d want to check the code for security issues, but it’d be neat to see other solutions to the dependency issue.

Excellent points, and something we’ll definitely take into consideration as we discuss the specifics of this.



Curly braces requirement is nuisance, IMHO. Who says it improves overall readability? For me, it’s quite opposite – I have two braces more to “process” to figure out what is going on.

Agreed.

Just as a heads up, I leave off braces where appropriate in my Hybrid Core framework, so the themes that use it here would no longer be able to use it or would have change the code in the framework, which would defeat the purpose of using the framework.

Plus, WordPress PHP coding standards allow for no braces when you have single-line blocks: http://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/coding-standards/php/#brace-style

This does appear to be a sticking point, and while I feel that omission of curly braces is against the overall rule of clarity vs brevity, perhaps we need to revisit this.


Is a _s based theme acceptable or not ? http://underscores.me/

Underscores is just a starter theme, I don’t see why using that as a starting point would be a problem :)


But at the end of the day, styling a theme is for the theme we have created, not to enhance another theme. Keeping data is one thing, making another theme look better and function better is another.

Im sure ThemeFusion will not want there shortcodes/functionality within other themes.

Dont get me wrong, I can see the benefits of this for the buyer, but I can see a ball ache for developers when users come back saying, it does not look right… Their past content from the theme the developer created on a new theme some other developer created, and vise versa.

Yes, styling is for the theme. Check out what ZillaShortcodes does.


From the 5 years Ive been on WordPress I have never had any support/client ever ask:

“Why is my shortcodes not working on my new theme”.

Or

“Why is my old portfolio not showing” etc etc etc…

When people buy a new theme, it generally is to provide a new presence and not to use old content.

As greenshady already mentioned, it’s not you who receives these sorts of enquiries. But as someone who worked in web agencies on WordPress sites for a number of years, I can tell you without any doubt, other people get asked. I got asked. Running a WordPress meetup group, I also see many users asking about this. It’s something that concerns them.

Why you’re not being asked at all though, I’m not sure.


Great. One of the reasons that I don’t want to use TGMPA is because everyone can download the zip files from my theme if they know the location. For “pirates” is enough to share one link in a public forum and we become, or to be precise, buyers becomes a distributor of ilegal plugin copies. If someone have a solution of how to forbid direct download then I will use this TGMPA for sure.

It could be done with access keys, and rather than package the ZIP in the theme, you serve it from a server that uses the access key to verify. However, something like this should be available on CodeCanyon in the near future (as it is with themes on ThemeForest now).


“Im sure ThemeFusion will not want there shortcodes/functionality within other themes.”

To put on the record, on day one of the first announcement, it came to us a shock purely because of deadline and buyer expectations. When it was clear that all already approved themes will have a much larger deadline since then we have been fully supporting the new requirements and will be following it, we have a much larger timeframe to support the WordPress and ThemeForest conditions and think about the changed workflow for our buyers.

We’re happy to follow and support them in the coming months.

Personally, as a developer, I am quite happy to work on these changes and write better code which in the long run will be beneficial to our business and our users.

Time to get creative guys. :)

- Muhammad Haris

Brilliant, Muhammad :D


Guys, congrats on taking this step and on working so close with the community to clarify and implement these changes smoothly. I’ve seen a lot of valuable feedback and even learned a lot from experienced developers and authors in these ~100 pages and am glad to see that authors that I personally admire and respect (some even know) are on board with these new requirements and even encourage them.

They follow good practice, push developers to be creative without being sloppy and put a clear limit between style and functionality. Also, they help educate clients and in the end, an educated client is a happy and much easier to deal with client. So, thanks Envato team and Japh particularly for “wasting” so much time doing an amazing communication job that at times has become frustrating and repetitive. Much respect.

As an aside – no promo intended – this recent video from Apple (Mission Statement) kind of reaches a few points of the whole “jam-packed” design/functionality debate that has been going on lately, although it has nothing to do with WordPress. Still, the principles apply: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZmIiIXuZ0

If everyone is busy making everything, how can anyone perfect anything? We start to confuse convenience with joy, abundance with choice. Designing something requires focus. The first thing we ask is: What do we want people to feel? Delight. Surprise. Love. Connection. Then we begin to craft around our intention. It takes time… There are a thousand no’s for every yes. We simplify. We perfect. We start over.
Words of wisdom. Have a good day/night everyone and may you sales skyrocket!

Nice link! I watched that video when they played it at WWDC, and I thought of ThemeForest and these requirements too. It’s quite inspiring :)

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Japh says

It’d be kind of nice if blockquotes were expandable and collapsed by default on long posts, wouldn’t it? ;)

(Sorry!)

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JonnyShogun says


Regarding widgets, I have placed all my custom widgets into a plugin.. But i have 3 widgets that i made that are dependent on data from my admin options. My contact info widget, my social widget, and my twitter widget. Basically in the widgets page the user just drags the widget over to the position they want it in, and the configuration info is in my admin options page, with links in those widgets displaing links to my admin page to configure. So those widgets i didn’t include in the plugin since they depend on data that is specific to the admin options i have in my theme. And those widgets share files that only available in my theme so i dont have duplicate code.

Will that be Ok, that these widgets are not included with my other widgets inside a plugin since the info from those widgets are dependent from my themes admin options?

This would be at the discretion of the reviewer. It’s difficult to answer this one, as I don’t know why your Twitter widget would be dependent on your admin options.

basically when a user sets the Twitter Widget ID in the admin in one place, versus having to put that Twitter Widget ID in a input field in every Twitter Widget block.

also regarding my previous comment about:

What is going to stop another developer or user from stealing your code that you put in a plugin, and use it in another Theme? So all your hard work can be easily stolen by making all these fetures of your theme made into a plugin? This is very troubling, How will we be protected from this? And how will Admin Slider Options be treated, if my slider options are made into a plugin? ...they can easily be available for use in someones theme, and is ripe fro misuse!

Any thoughts on what would stop another developer or user from stealing code from the easy accessible plugins? And do we have to make all slider options into a plugin?

Thanks again JAPH for answering our questions so fast!! :)

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M-Theme says

Hi, Japh!

I have read all the comment, but can’t find the below question:

You recommend us to add the funactions via plugins as much as possible, so I want to know, if the user only installed my theme, but not installed my plugin. I will not let the theme run. Does it allow?

Other words, the user must installed my plugin, then the theme will run.

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Japh says

Any thoughts on what would stop another developer or user from stealing code from the easy accessible plugins? And do we have to make all slider options into a plugin?

Can you explain a little further the scenario you imagine them getting access to the plugins?

I can think of two possibilities:

  1. File access to the theme or WordPress install, and taking the plugins
    If they have this level of access, nothing is stopping them doing that now.
  2. URL access to ZIP file of plugins in the theme’s subdirectory
    An option would be to utilise a different method of distribution. Have the theme install the required plugins, via TGMPA (or similar), from a repository or server that requires a key. Soon, CodeCanyon will support this (as ThemeForest does), for example.

Thanks again JAPH for answering our questions so fast!! :)

My pleasure! :D


You recommend us to add the funactions via plugins as much as possible, so I want to know, if the user only installed my theme, but not installed my plugin. I will not let the theme run. Does it allow? Other words, the user must installed my plugin, then the theme will run.

Hi Matt! Ideally, the theme would “gracefully degrade”. That is, it will still work, but the functionality provided by the plugin will be missing.

As an example, let’s say it’s a restaurant theme, and requires a plugin that enables various custom post types (such as menus etc.). In this case, with the plugin disabled, ideally it should still look roughly like the general aesthetic of the theme, but it won’t have nicely styled menus, etc.

Does that make sense?

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M-Theme says
As an example, let’s say it’s a restaurant theme, and requires a plugin that enables various custom post types (such as menus etc.). In this case, with the plugin disabled, ideally it should still look roughly like the general aesthetic of the theme, but it won’t have nicely styled menus, etc.

Hi, Japh!

Your mean is that: If the user does’t install my plugin, my theme still needs to be running. Just lose some featrues from the plugin. Is it right?

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Japh says

Your mean is that: If the user does’t install my plugin, my theme still needs to be running. Just lose some featrues from the plugin. Is it right?

In most cases I would think that would be desirable, yes.

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M-Theme says

Hi, Japh!

Continue to my above question: If the theme must be running without my plugin, I think the metabox and options both need to in the theme. Otherwise the user just got a twentytwelve theme after they paid $30-50.

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