649 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 3 years
  • Has sold $10,000+ on Envato Market
  • Has collected 10+ items on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
+1 more
ChapterThemes says

Did he pay extra for that plugin? You’re damn right he did! He paid on average $45 to $60 compared to $30-$35, a simple theme’s price. So how’s the extra $15 to $30 as compensation for your plugin? Sounds good to me.

No, you are totally wrong.

A very beautiful well designed theme, without super plugins or some tech-savy feature is still priced 40 to 45 bucks.

Prices of 30 bucks aren’t used in a long time for themes.

481 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 6 years
  • Has sold $10,000+ on Envato Market
  • Had an item featured in an Envato Bundle
  • Won a Most Wanted contest
+5 more
QBKL says

No, you are totally wrong.

Not totally wrong. Maybe $30 theme, yes. But please DO have a look at the portfolio of… Mike McAlister. http://themeforest.net/user/mikemcalister/portfolio

Do we agree he’s not just an ELITE author (which is pretty darn easy to become lately), but also a talented and respected one?

His themes sell for roughly $35 to $45. His $40-$45 themes DO COME with extra functionality BUT NOT with “super plugins”. Not anything to turn your site into the next Google or something.

Simple functionality will get you 5 to 10 bucks over that $35 blog theme. More complex can get you to even $30 extra compensation.

Anyway, we do agree on what you posted as a viable model in the previous post. That’s basically what I see perfectly work myself. Particularly with a good, functional CodeCanyon repository.

33 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 2 years
  • Has collected 1+ items on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
  • Located in United States
JonnyShogun says

@Theme-Desert, maybe I was not clear the first time. Let me give it another shot. So, you’re saying…
Im just saying that by making all functionality into a plugin for things like slider options, widgets.. just makes it easier for someone to steal your code

Why should you receive extra compensation if a user decides to use your plugin in another theme? Did the user pay for the initial package? Yes. Does he use more than one copies of it if he bought a regular licence? No. Did he pay extra for that plugin? You’re damn right he did! He paid on average $45 to $60 compared to $30-$35, a simple theme’s price. So how’s the extra $15 to $30 as compensation for your plugin? Sounds good to me.

The only difference here my friend is that THE USER pays the whole amount in just one place: ThemeForest for $55, instead of buying your simple theme (or as some like to call it – skin – though it’s the same thing no matter how pompous you want to make it sound) from ThemeForest for $35 and your plugin from CodeCanyon for $20.

You get compensation.

@QBKL I understand there are ways to get the code. And I never said that, its an extra $15 to $30 as compensation for your plugin? Your missing my question!

Why would i make a simple theme and then require a user to go searching around codecanyon to buy bits and pieces of functionality through a plugin. Most users want it all in one theme, they don’t want to go fishing around making a theme like a Mr Potato Head..

Even all the Elite authors will eventually have to port all thier functionality to a super plugin. But all this is still up in the air and we need better clarification, instead of non STAFF members making their assumptions on how it should be done.

There has been no clarification from STAFF or JAPH regarding other functionality in plugin that have to work 100% on another themes frontend. They have only specified custom post types, shortcodes, and widgets.

As far as compensation im talking about the theme prices would need to go up since im selling a theme with functionality that is no longer specific to my theme but is available to other themes as well. So that becomes a problem since now you have to sell the theme on themeforest, and then possibly your plugins for your theme on codecanyon.

All this plugin nonsense will be fine if ThemeForest Staff say we are allowed to deactivate our theme specific plugins (with the exception of shortcodes), when the Theme is switched/changed.

189 posts
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Had an item featured on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
+5 more
Cubell says

Who said that plugins should ever work without the theme? You guys are missing the point of everything here. Envato want themes to be easily interchangeable, in other words, if a user changes themes, buyers can still SEE their data, for example, their custom post type posts.

In other words, your plugins don’t even NEED to work/look like they do in your theme if the theme isn’t activated, they just need to still SHOW the data (i.e meta boxes/custom post types need to be visible so the user can copy and paste their data to their new theme, and then delete the old plugin).

We are not creating plugins that need to be maintained. We are creating a theme that includes a custom plugin for that theme. If a buyer wants to take the plugin elsewhere and use it there, it’s up to them to make it compatible. They paid for the whole package, not the plugin individually. Think of it like this: If they copied and pasted some of the functions from your theme that they bought into another theme, does that mean you need to help them make your function work with their new theme just because they bought your theme previously? Obviously not. Plugins included with a theme are no different.

Here is the quote of the question I asked about this and Japh’s response:



2) Can we create a single plugin that creates all the meta boxes, custom post types, etc and then within the theme actually manipulate the data the user inputs in those meta boxes? Example: The plugin creates a meta box for a review system (Criteria inputs, scores inputs, etc). Then within the themes we write the css + functions that grab the data and do whatever with it.

That sounds fine to me, yes.


3) If we put all functionality in one plugin and set the plugin to be “forced activated” using TGM, then the theme would load everything and be exactly the same as it is now, with the one difference that buyers will be able to change themes and still see the data they inputed into review meta boxes, custom post types, etc, however, the data is now meaningless and only there for them to easily copy and paste to their new theme’s meta boxes, seeing as the functions/css that manipulated that data was integrated in the previous theme. This is how I can see this all working. Is this how you want it to be?
That sounds right to me. Also, you left out the scenario where you made more than one theme for this particular niche, and they were able to switch between your themes without losing any data and having everything still work on the frontend too! (Yes, perhaps this was possible without plugins before, but it will be a much cleaner separation now)
481 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 6 years
  • Has sold $10,000+ on Envato Market
  • Had an item featured in an Envato Bundle
  • Won a Most Wanted contest
+5 more
QBKL says

Why would i make a simple theme and then require a user to go searching around codecanyon

You don’t have to. Bundle it with the theme and the theme will sell for a higher price.


Most users want it all in one theme, they don’t want to go fishing around

Correction: “Most users think they want an all in one theme”, because it’s what authors taught them to believe. Just like with everything else in our world today, bigger does not mean better, yet we’re brainwashed to believe so.

If everyone is busy making everything, how can anyone perfect anything? We start to confuse convenience with joy, abundance with choice.

The compensation issue I really don’t see as an issue and I think I’ve been pretty clear on that topic. The debate is still ongoing so I’m sure most of the issues will get clarified in the end as the staff will be able to make right from wrong throughout these things we’re debating here.

189 posts
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Had an item featured on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
+5 more
Cubell says

Correction: “Most users think they want an all in one theme”, because it’s what authors taught them to believe. Just like with everything else in our world today, bigger does not mean better, yet we’re brainwashed to believe so.

If everyone is busy making everything, how can anyone perfect anything? We start to confuse convenience with joy, abundance with choice.

I don’t think that philosophy can be applied to themes on Themeforest + most features in a theme are nothing more than a few lines of code that do not take much time to create and can improve a theme.

What made Envato/Themeforest what is it today is using “complete-website-in-one-for-$45” as a selling point, if they were simply skins from the start there is absolutely no way it would be as big as it is today.

20 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 1 year
teamCrisis says


—if we are using the TGMAC, can we set the plugin to force deactivate if the user switches the theme so are plugin is only used with our theme? (with the exception of shortcodes)
You can put in a theme info check inside plugins to only work with a certain theme or you could also use a purchase key check or something. – don’t know if thats allowed btw. Waiting for response for that in an earlier question.

I very much doubt this would ever be allowed. That defeats the entire purpose of putting various functionality into a plugin in the first place. Nice idea, but again, very much unlikely to be allowed.

481 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 6 years
  • Has sold $10,000+ on Envato Market
  • Had an item featured in an Envato Bundle
  • Won a Most Wanted contest
+5 more
QBKL says

I don’t think that philosophy can be applied to themes on Themeforest + most features in a theme are nothing more than a few lines of code that do not take much time to create and can improve a theme. What made Envato/Themeforest what is it today is using “complete-website-in-one-for-$45” as a selling point, if they were simply skins from the start there is absolutely no way it would be as big as it is today.

ThemeForest today is what authors made of it and what Envato allowed authors to make of it. That is Envato’s flaw. Just as with other markets before, they allowed it a path that in the end resembles the bubble that will nonetheless burst at one point. Yet I do believe they caught it in time.

The “all-in-one-for-$45” has never been Envato’s selling point. It has been particular authors’ selling point. Let’s not confuse the two, even if they are related/connected.

Thing is, 90% of the clients don’t use more than 50% of the theme’s packed functionality. Hell, I don’t even think they use WordPress at more than 20-30% of its capabilities. And if a client would use more than 50% of those jam-packed functions I doubt they’d have a good looking and proper functioning website at the end of the day. For the sake of “abundance” we use the “You get this this and this for only $X” marketing scheme, with complete and utter disregard to issues such as:

- Website flow; - Website speed; - User Interface; - User Experience. - Hell, even SEOs would run like hell having to optimize such a site.

But maybe I’m not one to talk… who am I after all, don’t even have a WP item in my TF portfolio.

1512 posts
  • Has referred 1+ members
  • Has sold $10,000+ on Envato Market
  • Has collected 10+ items on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
+2 more
OriginalEXE says

The way I decided to go regarding page builder in my framework is I store builder generated content to a single meta field which then I join with main content via the_content filter.

That way even if users stop using my framework completely, it won’t mess up their content with unparsed shortcodes.

189 posts
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Had an item featured on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
+5 more
Cubell says

ThemeForest today is what authors made of it and what Envato allowed authors to make of it. That is Envato’s flaw. Just as with other markets before, they allowed it a path that in the end resembles the bubble that will nonetheless burst at one point. Yet I do believe they caught it in time.
What bubble? Nothing has happened. Themeforest could continue to operate as it is now and nothing will ever happen, except they will continue growing as they have done in the past few years. They have just decided that it would be better to adhere to industry standards better, which is great for everyone.

The “all-in-one-for-$45” has never been Envato’s selling point. It has been particular authors’ selling point. Let’s not confuse the two, even if they are related/connected.
The point is that it has been a significant selling point for Themeforest themes, one that made Themeforest what it is today (very successful). It doesn’t matter if it was on purpose/author’s doing/Envato plans/etc, without it, Themeforest would not be what it is today, to think otherwise is foolish.

Thing is, 90% of the clients don’t use more than 50% of the theme’s packed functionality. Hell, I don’t even think they use WordPress at more than 20-30% of its capabilities. And if a client would use more than 50% of those jam-packed functions I doubt they’d have a good looking and proper functioning website at the end of the day.
You are grabbing numbers out of nothing. What are these “functionality-packed themes” you even talk about to base your entire argument against? Authors usually create features to set any background to any page, custom sidebars to different sections, review systems, review widgets, shortcodes, page templates (about us, contat us), etc. All of which users will use this one and that one, and another user will use the other one. That is why they sell so much, it is because they appeal to many people looking for different things.

- Website flow; – Website speed; – User Interface; – User Experience. – Hell, even SEOs would run like hell having to optimize such a site
If a feature is used, the code is run, if it isn’t the code isn’t run. No extra speed issues. User interface is what the author makes it, having many features shouldn’t impact it in any way. User experience? Have you seen all the positive feedback themes generally get? Have you seen the star ratings from happy buyers? SEO? I am an experienced SEO and doing SEO for a website has nothing to do with this subject. You can have the simplest design/features/website in the universe, if you don’t know how to do internal SEO, your SEO will suck regardless.

P.s We have gone completely off-topic :)

Helpful Information

  • Please read our community guidelines. Self promotion and discussion of piracy is not allowed.
  • Open a support ticket if you would like specific help with your account, deposits or purchases.
  • Item Support by authors is optional and may vary. Please see the Support tab on each item page.

Most of all, enjoy your time here. Thank you for being a valued Envato community member.

Post Reply

Format your entry with some basic HTML. Read the Full Details, or here is a refresher:

<strong></strong> to make things bold
<em></em> to emphasize
<ul><li> or <ol><li> to make lists
<h3> or <h4> to make headings
<pre></pre> for code blocks
<code></code> for a few words of code
<a></a> for links
<img> to paste in an image (it'll need to be hosted somewhere else though)
<blockquote></blockquote> to quote somebody

:grin: :shocked: :cry: Complete List of Smiley Codes

by
by
by
by
by
by