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JonnyShogun says

Hey everyone, I hope the following responses help provide some clarifications.

If I missed your question, or my response is actually more confusing than clarifying, I apologise and will happily clarify further.

Again, I apologise for the long reply, and the long wait, I didn’t expect 6 pages! ;)


Im not just randomly saying this. The reason i said that my slider options and theme options need to go in a plugin, in Phase 2 starting in November, is because that’s the answer Enavto Support gave me TODAY when i emailed them about it. They said they will be requiring all functionality, even theme and slider options and pages ported to a plugin. Thats what they told me. So thats what im going by!

Can you please provide me with the support ticket ID on this so I can clarify?

Hello, my ticket is: Ticket ID: KVR-513-21114

I asked several times.. and I was told that all functionality that is not core must go in a plugin for Phase 2 starting in Novemeber.

thanks again if you can clear this up JAPH :)

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dSKY says
Sinc I didn’t get an answer in the last batch of answers, I’m quoting myself :)
Hope to get the answer soon :)

I’m a little confused about CPT’s and I have a couple of questions.
  1. Should plugin be used only to house cpt functionality, or should it include js, and css files that are required for front end design?
  2. Can the plugin use custom pages, with the ability that theme pages and custom post pages, if present will take precedence plugin-templating-within-wordpress
  3. If the plugin creates metaboxes for custom pages , post types, where should the logic for parsing the meta information go? And if I have some custom functions for retrieving and using that meta data, where should I put them ( functions.php or inside the plugin ) .... they will have to be used on the pages that are rendering custom post types.
  4. Where should I put all the helper functions which I use through the theme? underscores.me (_s theme) has a “inc” folder with the extras.php file that has all the extra functionality. Is it okay to have files in that folder with custom functions separated in to different files depending on their usage?
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fuelthemes says

There is already a plugin that converts CPTs for future use.

Since the plugin only lets you view the data without using them, can’t the user just export the CPT as xml or back up their data before changing themes? They can switch back to the old theme whenever they want.

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Cubell says

There is already a plugin that converts CPTs for future use. Since the plugin only lets you view the data without using them, can’t the user just export the CPT as xml or back up their data before changing themes? They can switch back to the old theme whenever they want.

Yes, a user can export the data to an xml, they can also switch back and forth between themes to copy and paste data, etc. But that’s not a very nice user experience.

Envato want to minimize the issues users experience when changing themes + themes being as compatible as possible with external Wordpress plugins (free or premium).

To fix the plugin issue they have set coding standards to be on par with the rest of the industry, which is excellent, as a lot of issues/user tickets will disappear.

To fix the changing themes issue they are simply asking you to make a plugin that shows user data, such as custom type post content, so users can easily transfer it over to a new theme. I completely get it and agree with this. Your plugin just needs to save/show the data, your theme is intended to manipulate/style that data to do what you want.

The same ideology should be applied to shortcodes. They should be in a plugin so that when the user changes themes, the posts don’t have “[shortcode thing=’thing’]user content[/shortcode]” echo’d on the actual post page. Simply make a plugin that outputs the data as normal text (no [shortcode] code), and style/manipulate that data with your theme. It is then up the user to either style the shortcode output, or to update their posts to use the shortcodes of the new theme. But they can do this at their own pace, and not feel like their website is broken because 100’s of posts have broken code here and there.

Japh, if all I have said is accurate, you should really try to update the guidelines a bit to explain this better, as this seems to be the big sticking point for most authors.

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hugw says


I totally agree with the new guidelines. But, i am a little bit concerned about user experience. Imagine this scenario:

Common user, that does not know nothing about what is meta boxes, custom post type, shortcodes, widgets. One day this user buy a theme A, after the installation, he is asked to install a bunch of plugins too, then he do.

Plugins:

- A MetaBoxes - A Custom Post Type - A ShortCodes - A Widgets

Then, he change his mind and buy another theme, B. Oh, and he is asked to install another bunch of plugins too.

- B Widgets - B ShortCodes - B Misc.

I can keep this forever, but lets say, he stops on the fourth theme. And suddenly he realize that his admin has 3 “Portfolios” menu itens, 2 “Sliders” menus and worst, when he try to add a new Post, he discovers a lot of custom fields that he does not know how to get rid off.

In the end, there will be maybe 20-30 plugins installed, and probably with common names like “Nice ShortCodes” or “Awsome ShortCodes”. How the “noob” user, will know how to deal with that information?

I think this is an interesting point. Even though an author only create a few plugins (say 1-2 plugins) to be using with his/her theme, end users still get a number of unwanted and useless plugins installed after switching themes.

By the concept that a theme must port all functionality into plugins, the users are “forced” to install and use the plugins that come with the theme in the first place (*Well, actually they are not forced to and they can choose not to install any, but in order to make the theme works as promoted, they couldn’t refuse right? :) ).

Also, since those theme-specific plugins serve only the functionality and styles for their own brand/theme, they might be useless to be used on any other themes. Unlike other general plugins on repository or other premium third-party plugins that are designed to be used as “stand alone” and independent.

So, how can authors prevent the situation that the users will have useless theme-specific plugins installed after switching the themes?

P.S. I’m all in for the new requirements and that’s totally great for most authors to comply with standards. I think Envato is surely going to the right direction in a long-term business. But there’s just something still unclear to me. :)

Scenario:

The user install five themes, loop trough each one and decide to take the last one and all plugins (from each theme) are now enabled. Imagine the “Add new Post” page, 3 to 5 blocks of metaboxes, how the user will know which metabox is related to the current theme?

Imho Envato needs to elaborate some specific rules about naming metaboxes, cpts, shortcodes, to avoid this kind of situation.

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FinalDestiny says

What the…? The theme options panel in a plugin? Really? The theme options are related to only that specific theme, not to any other, so what’s the point in having it in a plugin? WTF?

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hugw says

What the…? The theme options panel in a plugin? Really? The theme options are related to only that specific theme, not to any other, so what’s the point in having it in a plugin? WTF?

Theme Options will stay on your theme. Shortcodes, CPTs and Metaboxes are moving to a plugin.

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Cubell says

What the…? The theme options panel in a plugin? Really? The theme options are related to only that specific theme, not to any other, so what’s the point in having it in a plugin? WTF?
Where did you see this? Options panel is allowed to be integrated with the theme, no need for plugin. Read Japh’s latest response:


Continue to my above question: If the theme must be running without my plugin, I think the metabox and options both need to in the theme. Otherwise the user just got a twentytwelve theme after they paid $30-50.

Agreed :)

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JonnyShogun says


What the…? The theme options panel in a plugin? Really? The theme options are related to only that specific theme, not to any other, so what’s the point in having it in a plugin? WTF?
Theme Options will stay on your theme. Shortcodes, CPTs and Metaboxes are moving to a plugin.

I am still waiting on a definitive answer from JAPH and ENVATO SUPPORT, since when i emailed support about option panels, they told me: that ALL functionality that is NOT core, must be ported to a plugin for the Phase 2 starting in November. JAPH asked for my Support Ticket ID so he can investigate this. So i am still waiting on clarification from JAPH and ENVATO SUPPORT STAFF on the confusion since we are being told different things on the forum and through Envato support tickets. Hopefully we get an answer soon. :)

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teamCrisis says

Scenario:

The user install five themes, loop trough each one and decide to take the last one and all plugins (from each theme) are now enabled. Imagine the “Add new Post” page, 3 to 5 blocks of metaboxes, how the user will know which metabox is related to the current theme?

Imho Envato needs to elaborate some specific rules about naming metaboxes, cpts, shortcodes, to avoid this kind of situation.

I completely agree. How will users know what features/functionality belong to what theme? I doubt a user will cycle through 5 themes but still, even just two themes could be confusing depending on how many metaboxes are used in each theme. I think it can be cluttered and messy. But I guess Envato is saying the user will have to just deal with it – at least they have access to their content.

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