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VF says


I think BUYERS will decide when enough is enough. Recently I’m starting to hear things like “to many features” and “feature overdose” from them :D
I see no problem with adding 500+ features so long as every one of those features can be disabled if desired. I personally dislike “feature overdose” themes that don’t provide me an easy way to slim them down. However, I realize this is easier said than done, of course. ;-)

Of cource! :D Due to loopholes in testing, sometimes disabling feature C and feature M may result “author never going to attend error”! A bulldozer can never be converted into car! :D

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jonathan01 says

Hey @Doru – I just wanted to say thanks for the post, I understood your point 100% from the start.

Unfortunately you’re not going to change a thing. More features = more sales because a large portion of the targeted audience through marketing efforts are those that look for ‘features’ and that turns in to sales which is all that Envato is here for.

But again, great post and thanks!

Jonathan

PS – loved the car images as a perfect example :)

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urbazon says

There are some bad pricing practices on other marketplaces as well. Let’s use AudioJungle as an example: if you bundle up a few similar (very subjective term, btw) sound effects in the same AJ item, it won’t be considered as the sfx pack, but just a regular item with variations – and it’s okay if you include just a few of them, 2 or 3. But if you include, for example 10 of them (it does happen!), then you’re basically selling sfx for 10 cents, instead of minimum price of $1 !!!

Also, if you have a music track, and you include variations (for example with and without vocals, or regular and looped version, or few edits – long, short, medium…) it all counts as just one single item and is priced per duration of the “main” file in the bundle. IMHO, this undermines some great tracks.

In these cases, it would be ideal if there is a mechanism for the buyer to choose the version they need: if you need to buy the main track, you select it in the item’s list and click the purchase button. Something similar to image sizes on PhotoDune. But with current system of zipping all individual files into one archive, I see it will never get implemented.

Don’t know if something like this is possible with ThemeForest themes or VideoHive ae templates, but then there is the possibility to raise prices of more complicated items…

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Creattive says

Well I think the explanation “Envato sells licenses, not products” is quite satisfying here.

I guess what Doru made write this post was a recent pack uploaded at videohive: A Whiteboard pack with really a lot of assets, drawing etc that lets you easily make your own explanation videos.

It is priced $45 dollar, although compared to other whiteboard-style-templates that goes around $30 it has easily 10x as much drawings etc.

Now again, when you are selling a product, this should be at a higher price. But since it is a one-time-use license, it only givs the buyer the opportunity to choose out of more assets, but in the end he will use around the same number of drawings like the others have implemented. For a one-time-use, a price of $300 would be way too high, since you won’t use everything and it would kill the file. For a product, a price of $300 would be reasonable.

But this is all assuming that the whole license-thing works and without even knowing who purchased our items they will be used several times, and even reverse the payment, etc since the system is not working at all

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Parallelus says

I can agree with this as well. Especially the idea of making prices accurate to the item’s bundled plugins. I think it’s a bit of a scam to purchase extended licenses for 20 plugins on CodeCanyon and include them all in $45 theme. That’s not reflective of the theme’s value at all.

I believe buyers are taking advantage of this and it’s hurting other authors on both marketplaces. I’m at a loss to explain why a theme would need 5 slide show plugins with nearly identical functionality.

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VF says

Don’t know if something like this is possible with ThemeForest themes or VideoHive ae templates, but then there is the possibility to raise prices of more complicated items…

Prices can be raised or restrictions can be made – depends on context. ThemeForest deserves severe restriction.

ThemeForest literally has bundles with same cost of normal item. Many top selling themes include commercial / premium plugins. Actually it is possible to inform in the description that “those plugins are well supported/tested but not included”. For buyers it is sufficient to make sure the Theme / Framework supports those 3 dozen plugins – it is still valuable from the pov of testing. It is unnecessary to include them.

But surprisingly, we (including this thread) never raised about this particular part and things moving on the way it is. If the ultra rich features issue have to be fixed, it should be started from restricting the inclusion of premium plugins (within source package). Not necessarily from author’s own or free or MIT ones.

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scottwills Envato team says

Hi everyone! A lot of good questions in this thread, thanks for raising them! I would be glad to try and answer as much as I can. Anything I’m not sure about I’ll make sure the right people and teams at Envato get informed and I’ll come back and update everyone as soon as I hear back from everyone.

What’s Changed?

Firstly, I’m not sure anything has changed. Usual upload instructions and review processes are in place as far as I know. I strongly suspect however that what we are seeing here is that authors are simply trying to outshine one another and “give away everything but the kitchen sink”. Authors trying to gain advantage over their competitors – healthy capitalism at work. But I think it’s a very reasonable question to ask whether the current system is intentionally or unintentionally being abused. I’ll raise this issue and double check this is not being overlooked and if there are any plans to address this issue. I think it’s important to clarify from the outset however that nothing to my personal knowledge has changed and this practice of bundling a bazillion plugins in one item is not something that Envato is trying to necessarily encourage or head towards. It’s just a natural evolution of the Marketplaces driven by authors and buyers and I sense it’s just a tactic and a trend that some authors are pursuing for competitive advantage.

Limits on What Can/Should Be Included

I can’t speak for every Marketplace, but I know some Marketplaces have strict rules about what can be bundled or packed together. I am aware of guidelines on ActiveDen, GraphicRiver and AudioJungle for example that limit what can be packed together. Take a look here:

So are you guys saying that it would be helpful if these kind of rules (where possible) could be more clearly defined for all our other Marketplaces too? For example, allowing a ThemeForest item to only have a certain number of third-party sliders or plugins (particularly if those sliders/plugins are sold individually on CodeCanyon)? Or just price the item higher if it includes a certain number of plugins? That’s a great conversation to have if so, any feedback on how we could potentially do this for specific Marketplaces without limiting the creativity of authors or having unrealistic prices please post your suggestions! What kind of limitations on # of items would you want to see? Again, I’ll alert key people to take a look at any ideas you post here.

Keep your questions coming, please don’t stop. :) Just ask us, we’d be glad to look into it for you. Meanwhile, I’ll get back to everyone on the issues I said I’ll look into. Thanks again for everyone’s comments and feedback so far.

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jonathan01 says

Hey Scott – long time since I saw you on the forums nice to have your input.

I think the points raised are mainly:

Envato encourages plugin bundling because reviewers price those items higher ( when in essence most of these plugins are free and bloat – example 5 sliders isnt really necessary and warrants a higher sale price? )

This has created a gold rush for some authors thinking that the more they cram in the higher the price and the more appealing it is to ‘some’ buyers.

Some might say the bundling is also encouraged because Envato creates bundles and people see the sales being so high and follow suit.

While support for popular plugins should be encouraged, a higher price for simply adding plugins in to a theme, as mentioned, does not mean its a better theme than another, yet a higher price does make buyers believe it’s somehow better and hence a higher price.

Envato also realize this and it’s why you price certain authors files, even if they fall under your recent guidelines for pricing as the bottom tier, and you turn around and place them at the top most level.

Hope that helps add to the discussion.

Jonathan

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CodingJack says

For good reason, we don’t allow authors to price their own items; and this is just one of those loop-holes that probably needs to be regulated as well. I’m not sure limiting the amount of premium plugins a theme/template can include is the answer. Instead, we probably just need to make sure that item prices more accurately reflect the item’s full value.

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biyanpasau says

Buyer are forced to buy tools, not themes. Themeforest is a place for monstrous themes.

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