businesswebsitedev_com
businesswebsitedev_com Recent Posts Threads Started
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businesswebsitedev_com says

Actually Envato do not just rate the help file / documentation they also set the bar because they provide (or at least used to) example documentation for authors to use as a starting point – therefore I would of thought that anything beyond their documentation example template provided would be considered ‘well documented’.

It is not too much the rating that is the issue. The main issue is that I was told by Envato that they were not going to do anything about it and fed me the usual line of being a marketplace and therefore couldnt guarantee anything etc etc.

But yes I agree that basically they shouldn’t be the ones stating this as it isn’t reviewed as such therefore it’s a blind statement possibly based on a quick open and close which would be silly as it’s the content that provides good documentation, not the number of pages for example. I for one would not however want to show my full documentation prior to a purchase for all those naughty people that steal things – that’s giving them the manual for a product they didn’t buy and therefore I have my choice not to show it in full – however I would be more than welcomed to upload a ‘sample’ of the documentation people could look at freely prior to purchase without me giving everything away.

That is a valuable point. Then maybe Envato could implement a method that did not give it away beforehand. However, you can see my issue here as devs would not want to give out the manual before the purchase, but it is stated that it is “well documented” which is not the case and Envato refuses to do anything.

All I have ever asked is that when Envato are contacted, they take action by examining the documentation and altering the documented status from Well Documented to something that is a better description of the documentation state.

Let me give you an example from the documentation of the latest theme I bought so that you can see what I mean. It is not the size of the volume that is the issue, but the way it worded makes it almost impossible to follow. See the example below. I have added bold to the sections that make absolutely no sense.

Example Documentation

Using Category Colors for menus is so easy, you have till 6 colors. To asign them to submenus, add to submenu class ‘fcolorsub’ for example for a First color submenu item. Then you can create Overrides with those colors to assign them to categories, then you have the same color in menu and in category page.

These are just the first two lines of the documentation and as you can see, the grammar is almost impossible to follow and results in so many questions like “what is overrides and how are they created” and “if fcolorsub is an example, what is it, what does it mean and what should I enter” and “what is a category page and why would it have the same color as a menu item”.

It is very hard to talk about this issue without revealing specific themes that I found this issue with.

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doru says

That is worrying as the only person marked as STAFF to reply seems to have replied with incorrect information. Heck everyone makes mistakes so its not an issue, but surely staff should know the routine.

maybe we are a little exaggerating :)

KingDog have other duties with envato and doesn’t know in absolute detail how review works. There are many envato staff members and they are specialized in certain areas.

Regarding the documentation, authors should provide clear and descriptive help files. These files are reviewed by a staff member ( a reviewer) and he will tag the item with that Well Documented option. (not sure how this is calculated but probably comments in the item code may qualify towards earning this attribute )

unfortunately errors may happen. what you can do is to contact envato official support here: http://support.envato.com/ and tell them about this issue. They will investigate the item and they will ask the author to fix the problem.

Don’t let one case destroy your opinion of the marketplace. We are a lot of authors here and most of us we write helpful documentation or tutorials to help buyers customize our items.

businesswebsitedev_com
businesswebsitedev_com Recent Posts Threads Started
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businesswebsitedev_com says

maybe we are a little exaggerating :)

KingDog have other duties with envato and doesn’t know in absolute detail how review works. There are many envato staff members and they are specialized in certain areas.

I did not know that. Like I said, everyone makes mistakes, especially if the review process is not his area of expertise.

Regarding the documentation, authors should provide clear and descriptive help files. These files are reviewed by a staff member ( a reviewer) and he will tag the item with that Well Documented option. (not sure how this is calculated but probably comments in the item code may qualify towards earning this attribute )

Agreed. Most of them do indeed have great documentation, even if they do not cover all areas. One very common area that is entire missed is the image sizes and most of the theme options. You have to import the dummy content and then back engineer it to figure out how it works.

unfortunately errors may happen. what you can do is to contact envato official support here: http://support.envato.com/ and tell them about this issue. They will investigate the item and they will ask the author to fix the problem.

That is exactly what I did and they told me that they were only a marketplace and could not guarantee the quality of the item or documentation. You see my issue here? It seems everything is marked as well documented and when it is not, Envato are not interested in it and will take no action to improve it.

Don’t let one case destroy your opinion of the marketplace. We are a lot of authors here and most of us we write helpful documentation or tutorials to help buyers customize our items.

Indeed you do. There are so many awesome devs on themeforest and the themes are fantastic. But the problem is that when I buy an item that is tagged as “Well Documented” and I then find it is not well documented at all and is missing a heck of a lot or is unreadable due to completely messy grammar, Envato will not do anything, so I am stuck. Therefore, everyone must gamble when buying a theme because if the documentation is a complete mess, Envato will not do anything. That is the core issue here. Hence why I am bringing it to their attention and trying to get the issue fixed. This way, high quality devs such as yourself will stand out above the rest due to your excellent documentation.

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KingDog Envato team says


if an author has tagged his item as “well documented” then it should be.
Authors don’t tag it, reviewers do.

Thanks for the clarification :) I didn’t realize that. Edited my reply.

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KingDog Envato team says

p.s Kingdogs not drunk

Let’s not jump to wild conclusions.

:P

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doru says

That is exactly what I did and they told me that they were only a marketplace and could not guarantee the quality of the item or documentation. You see my issue here? It seems everything is marked as well documented and when it is not, Envato are not interested in it and will take no action to improve it.

This doesn’t sound right. I’m not sure why the official support should answer something like this. Are you talking about the official support? From the link I posted earlier? Can you post the answer you get by mail?

I’m not sure if is obligatory for the item to have documentation to be accepted on the marketplace but if it has and the description said “Well Documented” then the documentation needs to be there and should be clear enough to help you customize the item.

Really strange, it doesn’t appear to be an answer you get from the marketplace official support center.

businesswebsitedev_com
businesswebsitedev_com Recent Posts Threads Started
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businesswebsitedev_com says

Here is the reply I got from Envato support when I last contacted them about this issue:

we simply cannot get involved in disputes between users, authors, or buyers. As support is optional, we are unable to enforce a certain type of reply from authors.

We will definitely take a look at our processes for checking documentation in the future. If author support is absolutely vital for you, you may want to contact the author beforehand and ask about what type of support they intend to provide, or, you may wish to seek another venue for these type of digital goods that guarantees support.

So, it would seem that they did not look at the process for checking documentation. However, they may have done so as I am not in the loop. But nothing seems to have changed.

As you can see, they very clearly state that they do not enforce any reply from the authors. At the time, the author was not replying to my support tickets with any support and was instead swearing at me as they had thought I was a competitor trying to ruin their business. Finally, we got on a level field and they realized I was genuine and began providing support.

My point with this is: 1) Envato refuse to enforce support even when support is claimed to be provided in the description. 2) Envato refused to take action about the very poor documentation that was tagged as “well documented” apart from claiming that they would look at the process.

This is unnerving as I would have expected Envato to enforce the description on such items and to ensure that items guaranteed are actually delivered by the author.

businesswebsitedev_com
businesswebsitedev_com Recent Posts Threads Started
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businesswebsitedev_com says


p.s Kingdogs not drunk

Let’s not jump to wild conclusions.

:P

Absolutely agreed. We should not jump to wild conclusions. Crack those bottles open and lets all have a drink. I have a 40oz bottle.

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Rameau says

I do agree that buyers get documentation files before buying. Another great way for them to know if it’s worth it:

Edit: Just that it shouldn’t be mandatory for authors.

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Stylius says

^

bad idea. :p

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