342 posts
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visualkicks
says

Imagine if you bought an electronic item from a shop and it stated that it came with full documentation, yet it came with a leaflet that provided very scant information on how the item worked. You went back to the shop and they explained that they only introduce customers to suppliers and manage the payment, they refuse to assist in obtaining proper documentation or asking the supplier to change the box so that it does not state that a book of documentation is included when there is only a leaflet.

I Dont meant to jump on your back here, but this is a TERRIBLE example.

Lets say the shop is called “bobs electronics” and the product you bought was a shiny new panasonic tv. There is no way that Bob from bobs electronics will have any sway with the people from panasonic about ANYTHING. Nor would he be able to get you new ‘in-depth’ documentation from them.

You cant expect bob (envato) to be able to control that. Bobs electronics is just a shop. Just like envatos themeforest.net is just a shop. They sell stuff.

The only exception here is envato does have the power to remove the “well-documented” tag. But that doesn’t mean they can enforce what is sold with the product. Just like bob cant tell panasonic what to include with the tv.

342 posts
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visualkicks
says

ps. This is why people buy from authors that have proven themselves to be good. Just like I would buy a panasonic tv over a no-named one. Reputation is key. Which I believe is what you are getting at.

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fillerspace
says

The only exception here is envato does have the power to remove the “well-documented” tag. But that doesn’t mean they can enforce what is sold with the product. Just like bob cant tell panasonic what to include with the tv.

That is his main gripe…if Envato doesn’t actually review the documentation, they they shouldn’t label it “well-documented” because it gives the wrong impression. Now that I think about it, there is only a “well-documented” tag, and not a corresponding “poorly-documented” tag.

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fillerspace
says

I think all docs should have a minimum skill level disclaimer set, say 3 out of 10 for CSS and HTML : “This item is well documented, and requires some basic knowledge of CSS and HTML to be usefull. If you are not very confident in either CSS or HTML, please have a look at the following links, which have quick and easy HTML & CSS tutorials for beginners …”

From the Envato knowledgebase:

Note: Do not assume that the buyer of your item has any significant level of coding knowledge. When preparing your documentation, treat the buyer like a beginner.
http://support.envato.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/352/85/general-file-preparation-guidelines
8176 posts
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doru
says

Problem 1: Envato set the “well documented” tag, but when the theme is not well documented, Envato refuse to do anything about it.

this is not correct and I think all here agree about this. Since the tag is set by the reviewer he should had checked if the documentation is valid. They should investigate and see if your claims are correct. Then if true, they should obligate the author to fix the issue or change the “well documented” tag to something that matches the real structure of the item. They can’t ignore this part and I’m really curios how this happened. Maybe the support staff didn’t understood the issue. Errors may happen but this needs to be fixed. Authors invest time to create proper documentations and is not funny to find out that you can just put some random words and still get that tag on your item.

I don’t know how valid your claims are, I didn’t see that item help file, but from the answer you got from support it appears there are some issue with the help file. If true then support should pass this to the reviewers to get fixed.


Problem 2: If the author promises support, Envato will do nothing if no support is provided and more worryingly, they will do nothing if the author sends you abusive emails.

here you are wrong. author support is not mandatory even if he states he will offer some level of support. Since the agreement between the author, envato and the buyer, clearly states that support is not included with the item, then you can’t ask for support.

There are many reasons why an author that said he will provide support will chose to not do it for particular type of clients but is not this the point here. If he doesn’t want to do it then is final.

Said this, the item must work as advertised.

6211 posts
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VF
says

ps. This is why people buy from authors that have proven themselves to be good. Just like I would buy a panasonic tv over a no-named one. Reputation is key. Which I believe is what you are getting at.

+1, Anything we purchase from anonymous or unfamiliar or not-so-established vendor is an experiment, especially when the price is too low to be true – no matter who is the distributing vendor. In the recent 6-7 years micro-stock trend managed to grow in terms of content quality and innovation but the reliability is one major aspect still not matured to right proportion. Industry lacks competition on this “reliability” criteria but moved towards attraction.

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pjtops
says


I think all docs should have a minimum skill level disclaimer set, say 3 out of 10 for CSS and HTML : “This item is well documented, and requires some basic knowledge of CSS and HTML to be usefull. If you are not very confident in either CSS or HTML, please have a look at the following links, which have quick and easy HTML & CSS tutorials for beginners …”

From the Envato knowledgebase:

Note: Do not assume that the buyer of your item has any significant level of coding knowledge. When preparing your documentation, treat the buyer like a beginner.
http://support.envato.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/352/85/general-file-preparation-guidelines

Some basic knowledge of CSS and HTML = beginner

businesswebsitedev_com
businesswebsitedev_com Recent Posts Threads Started
25 posts
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businesswebsitedev_com
says

Thank you all for your comments. While the marketplace has had a notable improvement, these issues still remain.

While I understand the position of Envato, stating “well documented” simply because some type of documentation exists does not suffice. There should be scales of documentation instead of just one default documentation. As with the support option, it is a nightmare when the item states that the author includes support, but said support does not provide real support, you are left in the dark.

I feel that there needs to be much more transparency and accuracy for at least these two items. At the end of the day, both of these issues could easily warrant a chargeback on your card due to items missing (support and/or documentation).

I know it is a tough point for envato, but I do feel that clearer tags would result in a purer marketplace. Even if “well documented” was used as default and downgraded upon investigation should any complains from buyers arise.

I recently purchased a theme and the documentation was how to upload and activate. None of the features were documented and when I contacted the author, they simply informed me that I would need to open a ticket for every single feature I wanted to know about.

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ThemesCreators
says

I understand your point of view as a buyer. If the item says “well documented” you expect and it should be well documented, doesn’t matter if Envato or the author are to blame.

But I think that, cause the nature of this market, this issue is very dificult to fix.

1 – This is an international market with authors and buyers from all around the world and not all of us have English as mother tongue.

2 – This market claim to be a market made for all types of buyer, from beginners to expert developers.

Like others have already said, is impossible for Envato to take the control about this without hiring significantly more staff and reject even more author. This of course will reduce a lot the number of items in the market, but will improve the qualitity.

In the other hand, I suppose we all are talking about WordPress and other CMS themes. Others items in the market don’t have this documentation issue.

Creating a WordPress theme can take easily one month. A WordPress theme is sell for only $40-$60. If you are an author, depending in what country you are, you will need to sell more than 100 items. More if you are not working alone or if you include premium plugins with the theme.

This is the risk we authors take, we know it. We can make a lots of money or waste the time.

What you buyers should know when you buy an CMS theme, is that $40-$60 is a very low price for what you can make with SOME of this items. Other items will waste your time. And this is the risk you buyer take.

Creating the documentation, video tutorials, item description page, etc can take more time than creating the theme itself. I suppose that a lot of authors here directly don’t want to take risk and they create a “more than two page documentation” that pass the review, and when the theme is approved, they, maybe, will improve the documentation.

If you are really concerned about getting a quality item with quality support, you should not take the risk and hire an expert developer.

PS: Excuse my English, is not my mother tongue and it take to me almost 1 hour to write this comment, but I am sure you will find errors in my grammar.

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VisualSharing
says

Why not make the documentation visible online?
I did that for my last theme.

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