WordPress.org bans Themeforest members from participating in official WordCamp gatherings

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doru says

I don’t know what you’re being sarcastic about

I have no problem with themeforest selling themes and I have no problem with wordpress com selling themes (or the use of those themes)

the point is that themeforest authors are banned from wordcamp because they make money utilizing wordpress (this is debatable but let’s say is true)

wordpress com ( the same people who organize wordcamp and created wordpress) make money by selling themes (or the use of those themes)

somewhat themeforest is bad and breaks the licenses but wordpress com is perfectly legal.

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Japh says

Now all they say is if you have a different interpretation then you can’t possibly represent their interpretation. This is a fact I don’t see how one can deny.

Yes, of course, as WordCamps are run by WordPress.org, they can enforce whatever restrictions they like on official participants. I don’t think anyone is trying to deny that.

People just seem to find it harsh, because there aren’t really other WordPress-focussed events. So if you’re excluded from speaking, sponsoring, or organising, it can seem like a big deal. Especially when you have been doing exactly those things until now.

Also, please let’s try and keep the conversation calm and respectful of each other :)

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hogash says

In my opinion, it’s very simple. Envato helped Wordpress to grow even bigger than it was, and viceversa. Envato respects GPL however under a split license, to protect us authors. If there was a survey, i assure that it will be 99% authors who will post their theme under the split license and not 100% GPL. Ok, so no Wordcamps? Ok, no problem, nobody will come uninvited, although the situation and reason is ridiculous. Every WP autor here respects this piece of wonderful software which brought money into their pockets.

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Caldazar says

People just seem to find it harsh, because there aren’t really other WordPress-focussed events.
I have to admit I always had the impression you saw that coming and just didn’t care that they might get angry at you. Now I think you’re just not aware what central point you attacked and that you might have acted differently if you had known.

@Doru, you give a good example about that misinterpretation.

WordPress actually gives you not only the right to sell themes but to get their themes (yes, all of them) change them a bit and then sell it – in competition with the original theme you copied.

That is the central point of it all, what I called “chain of innovation”. For this evolutionary model of software-development to work, the flow of knowledge has to be free (not price, but reusability, the shoulder-of-a-giant-thing).

Putting an artificial block into this flow is considered quite harsh too. It affects the very core of the whole ideology. That’s exactly what you did.

Rightly so in legal terms, but that’s not what they care about. You could rip out the whole GPL and you’d see years of hand-wringing and foot-draging before they’d even think about suing you.

All they fear is you setting a (wrong) precedence in teaching people what freedom of software is all about and they felt they had to counter this as harshly as they were willing to go in making clear: “No, Envato’s model is not about what we consider free software. They can do it if they want but they don’t speak for us nor should they be considered part of the FOSS community”.

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Japh says

I have to admit I always had the impression you saw that coming and just didn’t care that they might get angry at you. Now I think you’re just not aware what central point you attacked and that you might have acted differently if you had known.

I did see this coming. I don’t think it’s about being angry though, I agree with your point that it’s about a different point of view.

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CodingJack says

I’m not into WordPress at all

lol :D

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CodingJack says

the people who created wordpress and ask for 100% GPL are the same people who created a business in selling the use of themes without giving the users the code for those themes so they can modify and distribute them for free.

The amount of hypocrisy here is amazing.

Maybe you have to be a stock author to see this. Because if not, I imagine you’re just a WP zealot or a GPL ideologue.

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Typps says


People just seem to find it harsh, because there aren’t really other WordPress-focussed events.
I have to admit I always had the impression you saw that coming and just didn’t care that they might get angry at you. Now I think you’re just not aware what central point you attacked and that you might have acted differently if you had known.

@Doru, you give a good example about that misinterpretation.

WordPress actually gives you not only the right to sell themes but to get their themes (yes, all of them) change them a bit and then sell it – in competition with the original theme you copied.

That is the central point of it all, what I called “chain of innovation”. For this evolutionary model of software-development to work, the flow of knowledge has to be free (not price, but reusability, the shoulder-of-a-giant-thing).

Putting an artificial block into this flow is considered quite harsh too. It affects the very core of the whole ideology. That’s exactly what you did.

Rightly so in legal terms, but that’s not what they care about. You could rip out the whole GPL and you’d see years of hand-wringing and foot-draging before they’d even think about suing you.

All they fear is you setting a (wrong) precedence in teaching people what freedom of software is all about and they felt they had to counter this as harshly as they were willing to go in making clear: “No, Envato’s model is not about what we consider free software. They can do it if they want but they don’t speak for us nor should they be considered part of the FOSS community”.

For an org, that was specifically told by the Software Freedom Law Center on how their licensing works, to then turn around give you a new take on the GPL, one that is based on ethics and morality is fine. But to punish on those grounds is plain wrong. You keep saying 80% GPL. What does 80% even mean ? The parts that need to be GPL are 100% GPL, period. You are either in breach of the license or you are compliant.

This is a discussion on some of these authors that want to speak at wordcamp, are told they are not welcome. I find it simply unfair and it’s OK to speak out and say so. This does not make anybody here ungrateful. When an author in this marketplace decides to write a theme or a plugin, they are extending wordpress beyond what it is currently capable of doing. This is important as it creates direct value to wordpress itself and the wp ecosystem. They cannot ignore this.

Wordcamp should not assume the stoners mentality, that the best stuff is 100% free and that they don’t need money to be happy. If you want to preach free[dom] and licensing, then start eating your own dog food. As some already pointed out, you cant be against the marketplace not wanting to provide a GPL option and then not give the same options yourself on wordpress.com because the GPL allows this when it’s a hosted service. How is that different ? Does this not stop the chain of innovation as you so ardently debate?

http://en.support.wordpress.com/themes/premium-themes/

<quote> When you purchase a premium theme, it is available for the lifetime of that blog. If you would like to use the same theme across multiple blogs, you’ll have to purchase the theme for each blog.

Note: Premium Themes are customized for WordPress.com usage only, and cannot be transferred to self-hosted WordPress.org sites. </quote>

As you can see, you never get to download any of these premium themes, that you’ve purchased. Your locked down to their host. If you some day decide to host your own blog, the theme you purchased is gone. You cannot reuse it.

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CodingJack says

There’s another thing that all of us, Envato and authors together, give: the largest commercial WordPress theme marketplace on the internet :)

This is what’s so amazing to me about the whole situation. Penalize Envato? Fine. But penalize a WordPress developer for trying to make a living by selling on the largest marketplace? Absurd.

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CodingJack says

You keep saying 80% GPL. What does 80% even mean ? The parts that need to be GPL are 100% GPL, period. You are either in breach of the license or you are compliant.

+1 If they don’t like the license they should change it. Or better yet, write your own! But don’t release something under a well known license and then cry foul when people who are actually following the license just aren’t following it the way you see fit.

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