WordPress.org bans Themeforest members from participating in official WordCamp gatherings

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Typps says

Ok, less offending, I’ll try:

Greed: To me it is obvious that the anxiety of many here in this forum is not about their freedoms but only about a particular one: making revenue. (At least its the dominant theme here by far)

That’s totally fine but may lead to some sort of one-dimentional thinking about the issue at hand and not seeing the bigger picture. That means there are many more facets how you could win or lose in this particular situation.

For example: You are utterly, nearly completely dependent on the existence of the GPL and the fact that WordPress takes it so seriously. My first thought in your situation wouldn’t be how they might make my little money-machine jar a little bit (which only exists because of them in the first place). Nor would I think how I’m not allowed to represent their ideal which I just dismissed by letting Envato take away my freedom to chose whatever licence I want – (in exchange for money, in itself still ok).

I would think how I could build trust within the community that provides the very foundation of my whole business.

Waving some legalese document at them with a smirk on my face and then smack-talking them in my forums was the last thing I’d dream of doing.

I’d thank god if my short-term-buck-saving-stunt would settle at the point of them excluding me from representing their ideology.

I didn’t see that being discussed here.

That’s quite harsh. You didn’t see that discussed because that is not the subject matter. The topic is about the authors here not being able to hold talks at Wordcamp, a penalty forced onto the marketplace because it wants to exercise it’s right as a business to freely choose it’s licensing options.

Is this so wrong ? The livelihood of several thousands of developers depend on this. You find this greedy ?

For the record, the argument of dependence is reciprocal and a tautological statement. The marketplace currently fills demand, if customers cannot get what they want, they’d go get it on another platform. Who loses ? Wordpress.

Thanks to marketplaces like this, whether selling licenses/support or GPL/support, demand is filled and it’s a win win for all involved.

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CodingJack says

@Caldazar, just curious, do you sell stock as 100% GPL? And if so, are you comfortable with the fact that people can just resell your work?

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Caldazar says

@CodingJack, I go into your question first because it’s the easier one.

Part of my freelance job is to sell my custom made applications to web-agencies who approximately double the price and sell it to one of their customers. Problem: It quickly became obvious that they were just copying the programs and selling it more than just once. Short: they pirated my copyright.

But just c&p sucks, because the implementation then tends to be crap and definitely not custom tailored.

So I wrote mails along the line: “I saw you copied my programs. Thats fine and to put that on safe ground and make it easier I licence it all under the GPL. B.t.w. if you need help with the implementation, just give me a call”

Point is: It’s not about feeling comfortable (I don’t initially) its about game theorie. Microsoft for example build its empire on top of a lot of pirated chinese Windows CDs. Granted, it’s another environment, but the moral of the story is the same.

If you can make 3 additional bucks by letting s.o. else undeservingly take 2 bucks out of your pocket, do it.

That’s what shareholders (greed) never see but entrepreneurs do and just search ways to best adapt to the realities, even if that might seem costly at first.

So here you could team up with a FOSS community. Who knows, they might create awesome custom tailored APIs for the ThemeForest or something, just because they love how Envato sells fully GPL’d themes. Building trust.

Instead the lawyer’s route is taken with a lot of boasting in the forums and now you have a bunch of geeks on you, trying to find ways to spit into your soup.

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Caldazar says

a penalty forced onto the marketplace because it wants to exercise it’s right as a business to freely choose it’s licensing options.
In fact it freely choose your licensing options which I believe will prove to be a great mistake, but that’s just a sidenote.

To me it comes down to respect.

I see your points. I doubt that this story will hurt WordPress that much, but if it escalates I wouldn’t say the same fore ThemeForest.

But as said the point is respect and trust. Why does Envato block the chain of free innovation here? Because it can. Now I don’t see how you can blame Wordpress for doing because they can. Now they, who provide freely in any sense, are suddenly the ones who have to bring the blessings of high ethics and morals unto you, instead of being pissed?

Now they are the a**es for not letting you represent their ideals although you made it clear you don’t give a crap about their ideals but only about how far a legal text forces you to go in terms of cooperation?

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FinalDestiny says

Why do you guys even bother to answer him, since he’s not a buyer, he’s not an author, not part of the community. 100% GPL is bullsh*t, I don’t want to end up being included in free bundles just because it’s possible legally due to shitty rules.

This story won’t affect TF at all, I think it can affect the quality of the wordcamp meetings since there are lots of great people here that could improve the quality of those meetings and promote WordPress a lot. ;) So it’s WP who actually loses something.

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Caldazar says

I want to rephrase that. I shut up the moment you can answer me my simple question:

If you people find 100% GPL sucks (which is totally fine with me, I’m absolutely not about that), why exactly do you find it unfair not being allowed to represent 100% GPL?

How can you be so disrespectfull? How can you make a living with WP and especially with the fact that they believe in 100% GPL, you being fully allowed to (by the GPL) and then rant about how the Vegan-Congress don’t want you to represent Veganism while eating a Steak? Why do you even want to represent them? Where is the freaking problem?

What is so wrong about this question that I have to take my ‘bullshit somewhere else’ as if I want to force you to use this or that licence?

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hogash says


100% GPL is bullsh*t, I don’t want to end up being included in free bundles just because it’s possible legally due to shitty rules.
Made to represent WordPress and the GPL if only those dicks would let you.

What are you, like 10 years? No offence but you’re behaving like one. You keep talking about greed, like a big idealist you are. Come down to earth among people man..

From your position as a non-author (neither a buyer) you come here and judge authors and Envato about greed, come on… get real. I want my work to be somehow protected, got it??

Anyway this discussion doesn’t get anywhere in a constructive way, since every party will stick to their opinions simple as that. The split license is there, it’s good and well thought.

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hogash says

If you people find 100% GPL sucks (which is totally fine with me, I’m absolutely not about that), why exactly do you find it unfair not being allowed to represent 100% GPL?
It does not ‘suck’, perhaps you got it all wrong. Read split license http://support.envato.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/428/0/split-licensing-and-the-gpl---what-does-it-all-mean
authors can protect their rights and freedoms to respect – and comply with – the GPL as well as to control their own work.
You keep insisting on 10000000% GPL when we already do comply with GPL.
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doru says

I want to rephrase that. I shut up the moment you can answer me my simple question:

unfortunately it looks like the only thing you do is to provoke and insult people.

you accuse us of saying something that we never did and then you demand an answer and an explanation.

is pointless to discuss with you in this thread but for those who don’t see the mechanism you are using I will just point out that:

no one is against GPL and no one said GPL sucks.

no one said is unfair to represent 100% GPL

in this specific case of wordpress my personal opinion is that they try to enforce some rules that they don’t respect themselves in the first place. this has nothing to do with GPL beeing awesome or bad or the freedom to release your work 100% free.

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Caldazar says
You keep insisting on 10000000% GPL when we already do comply with GPL.
Please no, I don’t. I don’t even insist on you using GPL at all. I never said I wasn’t greedy (its the basis of our economical system for a reason), just that I find it unwise to follow that impulse if better long-term-options are available.

I just don’t get why you want to represent 10000000% GPL and rant about not being allowed to?

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