7 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 1 year
  • Located in Canada
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
SunnyThemes says
Say if someone creates a portfolio post type and some functions as a plugin and includes that inside their theme. The theme has all the necessary template files to present the portfolio. Now a user switches theme and they keep the plugin active – they still have no portfolio at the frontend and need to customize or create a template. So much for forward compatibility of using a plugin. YES: the backend functions keep intact – but still at least 60% ( i think even more but lets say 60 ) of the buyers here do not know how to do that – so they are still stuck. I now know even more than ever that using custom post types inside a theme is not bad practice. The way you do it code-technically is a different thing.

If the CPT is created in a plugin and the user switches themes, the content of the CPT is still available in the backend. Not so if the CPT is created in the theme.

648 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 3 years
  • Has sold $10,000+ on Envato Market
  • Has collected 10+ items on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
+1 more
ChapterThemes says

Say if someone creates a portfolio post type and some functions as a plugin and includes that inside their theme. The theme has all the necessary template files to present the portfolio. Now a user switches theme and they keep the plugin active – they still have no portfolio at the frontend and need to customize or create a template. So much for forward compatibility of using a plugin. YES: the backend functions keep intact – but still at least 60% ( i think even more but lets say 60 ) of the buyers here do not know how to do that – so they are still stuck. I now know even more than ever that using custom post types inside a theme is not bad practice. The way you do it code-technically is a different thing.
If the CPT is created in a plugin and the user switches themes, the content of the CPT is still available in the backend. Not so if the CPT is created in the theme.

That’s what i said:

YES: the backend functions keep intact

But to be completely correct: even when the post type is created inside the theme, the data does NOT get lost when switching theme. It’s still there, only the theme doesn’t provide access to it.

But like i said, WordPress itself allows the creation of theme depended CTP’s inside a theme – so there really no point made here.

23 posts
  • Located in United States
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 6 years
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
  • Has sold $1+ on Envato Market
+2 more
bravewhale says

The thing I like about ThemeForest is that, as I see it, they don’t necessarily sell WordPress themes, they sell sites that happen to use WordPress as a backend. That’s a huge distinction, and I think it’s totally valid. As a TF customer, I’m not interested in buying a WordPress theme. I’m interested in buying a site.

This is very true; I’d imagine so for the majority of TF customers. So, another question is, should we as developers be able to dictate what a customer gets when they’re looking for an all-in-one website solution, and with that, dictate how it is used?

If a customer wants a website built that’s fully loaded, and a year from now wants something different that may have new or altered functionality and features, I’m sure they’re aware that buying a different fully loading theme means almost starting over with their content input. In fact, I’ve had clients who need a theme and are typically fine with re-inputting content. It’s almost expected as being part of the web development process.

I certainly favor plug-ability in theme development, but I think there’s another layer here we need to work through. The web development customer is either paying for a service from a design company who may build a wordpress site, or they’re buying a theme on TF. Either way I think a lot of these customers look at it as a site that one day will need to be redesigned and the content may need to be reworked.

How far should we go to determine how a theme is built and used when there are these types of customers?

Finally…


I even brought up the notion of a “WP Gold Certified” badge for themes that choose to uphold the highest of “best practices”.

I had this exact idea :) I think developers here on TF should unite and form an alliance, with a badge we can play on our profiles. This would indicate that we follow a standard set of development guidelines, and if the customer buys themes from us they know they’ll be safe during theme changes.

I would argue that WP doesn’t need a standard plugin to handle shortcodes. What WP needs is a standard list of shortcodes that all themes support.

Instead just waiting around for an official codex release of standard wordpress development guidelines, I think we should band together here on TF, as an alliance, and start deciding on these standards right now! Since it’s such an important issue on TF, there could be several forum threads related to determining these guidelines; starting with a standard list of shortcodes. I may be so bold to start that thread myself :P

954 posts
  • Has referred 1+ members
  • Has sold $1,000+ on Envato Market
  • Has been a beta tester for an Envato feature
  • Won a Most Wanted contest
+3 more
aleluja says

^ And what if customer doesn’t expect a theme to be a website but a theme because it says wordpress THEMES? And what about the customers that assume a theme is acting like a THEME (because he/she bought a THEME) and wants to switch themes?

I mean what do you get by making a theme complete website instead of being a theme? What is the advantage? Easier to make? Easier to install? Those are not worth it.

648 posts
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 3 years
  • Has sold $10,000+ on Envato Market
  • Has collected 10+ items on Envato Market
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
+1 more
ChapterThemes says

I ain’t gonna discus this further, but such a badge is Bull*, and there is NO right or reason AT ALL, to say those are “best practisces”. It’s just not a fact, it’s just the author’s OWN opinion.

And where have you dug up this old thread anyway. Close the damn thing before we get another pointless discussion :)

1959 posts Don't Worry, Be Happy
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Made it to the Authors' Hall of Fame
  • Has referred 200+ members
+8 more
FinalDestiny says

Show me just one author that doesn’t include shortcodes in his theme, doesn’t include a drag & drop builder directly in the theme, but gives everything via plugins.

127 posts
  • Has sold $125,000+ on Envato Market
  • Has collected 10+ items on Envato Market
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 5 years
+4 more
Veuse says

And where have you dug up this old thread anyway. Close the damn thing before we get another pointless discussion :)

This is absolutely not a pointless discussion. This is one of the reasons I advice our clients to not use TF themes. You can argue about best practices and all, but the fact is that it is a major issue when changing from one theme to another.

I really can’t see a single argument for having CPTs registered in the theme. For me it is just logic to have as much of the functionality as possible in plugins, and let the theme handle the presentation.

127 posts
  • Has sold $125,000+ on Envato Market
  • Has collected 10+ items on Envato Market
  • Elite Author: Sold more than $75,000 on Envato Market
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 5 years
+4 more
Veuse says

Show me just one author that doesn’t include shortcodes in his theme, doesn’t include a drag & drop builder directly in the theme, but gives everything via plugins.

I will be able to very soon ;-)

For our next release:

All CPTs in separate plugins

This means that users can activate only the CPTs they need, and have access to the data if they change themes.

Front end pagebuilder – plugin

Will not have much front end styling if theme is replaced, but users will still have access to the components and functionality. Also, it makes maintenance easier for me, so it is a win-win situation.

Analytics tracking – plugin

Why should the users have to re-enter their analytics code when changing themes?

Shortcodes – plugin

23 posts
  • Located in United States
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 6 years
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
  • Has sold $1+ on Envato Market
+2 more
bravewhale says

Show me just one author that doesn’t include shortcodes in his theme, doesn’t include a drag & drop builder directly in the theme, but gives everything via plugins.

Here’s one of the largest, most popular, high grossing sellers on the marketplace, I’m sure we all know of, who includes very little baked into each theme. And includes compatibility with their own set of plugins. http://themeforest.net/user/OrmanClark/portfolio

There you go. Others have followed suit, and more will do the same.

23 posts
  • Located in United States
  • Has been part of the Envato Community for over 6 years
  • Sells items exclusively on Envato Market
  • Has sold $1+ on Envato Market
+2 more
bravewhale says

All CPTs in separate plugins This means that users can activate only the CPTs they need, and have access to the data if they change themes.

That’s excellent! That’s a great reason to inlude CPTs as plugins, because not every customer needs each post type enabled. Plus, it help portability to their next theme.

I’m thinking there are enough developers here who want to embrace a more plug-able theme structure, that if we start discussing standard ways to use shortcodes, CPTs, etc, we can being moving every developer in that direction. Just little by little.

Helpful Information

  • Please read our community guidelines. Self promotion and discussion of piracy is not allowed.
  • Open a support ticket if you would like specific help with your account, deposits or purchases.
  • Item Support by authors is optional and may vary. Please see the Support tab on each item page.

Most of all, enjoy your time here. Thank you for being a valued Envato community member.

Post Reply

Format your entry with some basic HTML. Read the Full Details, or here is a refresher:

<strong></strong> to make things bold
<em></em> to emphasize
<ul><li> or <ol><li> to make lists
<h3> or <h4> to make headings
<pre></pre> for code blocks
<code></code> for a few words of code
<a></a> for links
<img> to paste in an image (it'll need to be hosted somewhere else though)
<blockquote></blockquote> to quote somebody

:grin: :shocked: :cry: Complete List of Smiley Codes

by
by
by
by
by
by