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pixelentity says

have you heard of filters? a properly developed plugin this wouldn’t be an issue, as long as authors use those filters(and modifying the styling) real question how many buyers actually use shortcodes?
yes and ? a bunch of filters in this collective shortcode plugin will cover every author needs so it could be used into each TF theme ?

can we assume whoever posts in this thread actually knows what he’s talking about ? because a certain wordpress evangelist tone assumed more than once in this thread starts to get really annoying.


real question how many buyers actually use shortcodes?
a lot. They even asks for more and somebody pay for custom ones also.

BF

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organicbee says

yes and ? a bunch of filters in this collective shortcode plugin will cover every author needs so it could be used into each TF theme ?

yes it could be done, but youre never going to fill everybody’s needs 100% and not everyones going to use the plugin the point is how to make things better for buyers and not sacrificing full functionality…

for example almost all themes have button,icon, tabs,columns, accordion etc shortcodes all of those could easily be wiped out with a plugin and allow authors to completely customized it

Im guess the better question is what dont you think could be done? the only thing I could really think of is if the plugin used A script for a slider shortcode and you wanted to use b script instead , it could be filtered(but wed still be at the same issue as the start it would break on theme change)

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pixelentity says

Im guess the better question is what dont you think could be done? the only thing I could really think of is if the plugin used A script for a slider shortcode and you wanted to use b script instead , it could be filtered(but wed still be at the same issue as the start it would break on theme change)
Which is why it will never work: complex shortcodes like gallery, slider, filterable portfolio requiring all kind of custom css/js.

btw, since this common shortcode component doesn’t exist (hardly believe it ever will), the original question still remain unanswered.

By moving theme features in custom plugins, who’s going to support the buyer when nothing works out of the box ?

BF

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wickedpixel says

I like the thing OrmanClark is doing – making themes compatible with his set of stuff and advertising it with that.
Both things are important – compatibility and the information about compatibility. Even if a theme has special modules that won’t work with themes – the user needs to be informed about what that theme is using. The user needs to know from the beginning what a theme supports and how the content will be handled.

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organicbee says

btw, since this common shortcode component doesn’t exist (hardly believe it ever will), the original question still remain unanswered.
just because the solution doesnt work for you doesnt mean it hasnt answered the first question as I listed plugins that handle shortcodes earlier, though it may not be the solution for every author

By moving theme features in custom plugins, who’s going to support the buyer when nothing works out of the box ?

I think that would vary, I know authors who use OptionTree and support it when theres issues with it, I no I do quite a bit (for the author I provide support for)

I also know of tons of Premium Plugin developers who have to fix things in themes that break their plugins(loading scripts wrong etc)

it depends on the author and their willingness or how much they care about their customers

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carlhancock says

Here’s a great idea that many of you should take to heart… quit making overly complex themes because it’s obvious many of you don’t really have a clue what you are doing.

Some of the comments in this thread make it clear that some of you don’t get the impact your poor development decisions have on the community as a whole. If you did, maybe the Gravity Forms support team wouldn’t have to spend so much time helping ThemeForest customers fix poorly developed themes that break plugins that are developed correctly.

As it is we practically need a dedicated support team member specifically to assist customers running poorly developed ThemeForest themes.

ThemeForest needs more developers like Orman Clark and Mike McAlister. The fact that some of you are discounting what Justin has to say is extremely disheartening and it’s those developers that contributes to making ThemeForest the butt of so many jokes in the WordPress development community.

Many of you have no business selling themes to the public.

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arconix says

Which is why it will never work: complex shortcodes like gallery, slider, filterable portfolio requiring all kind of custom css/js.
Nonsense. TF theme authors could easily code a plugin for use with their themes in which the CSS and JS necessary to power the functionality could be overridden by including specific files in the theme directory itself. It actually makes it easier for TF theme authors this way since authors can offer a consistent operational experience across all of their themes from a single plugin codebase, and yet still offer each theme a specialized look for that functionality.
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mordauk says

Orman Clark an Mike McCalister are both doing it right: they aren’t including any short codes in their themes but instead relying on the external plugin to be installed. This works beautifully because the short codes work no matter what theme is installed. There is absolutely no problem doing this, just make it noted and make it easy for the user to install the plugin.

Stop trying to claim you have to include short codes in themes because that’s the only way you can style them. Come on! Have you ever heard of deregistering a plugin’s default styles and loading your own?

Sure, there are some short codes, such as really complex galleries, that can’t always rely on a plugin, but it’s okay to have some exceptions. But there is zero, absolutely ZERO reason to include column, button, notices, and contact form short codes in your theme. ZERO .

I will reiterate what Carl (yeah, ever heard of Gravity Forms? That’s him) said: the amount of time I have lost as a plugin developer providing support to customers that are using a TF theme is huge. Literally hours every single week.

Justin (Green Shady), Carl, and I all write a lot of plugins, and we have all delivered plugins to the masses in the global WordPress community. You think 500 – 2000 users of your theme is a lot? Try 20,000 – 100,000 users. I assure you, with our significantly larger user base, we have seen every single problem out there, and the issues discussed in this thread are extremely real. If you discredit them or say things like “it’s better for business” then you really need to open your eyes, or step into our shoes for day.

Stop saying “what is best for business” and start thinking about what is best for the users as a whole, and that absolutely includes other developers of both plugins and themes. I can assure you, having a bunch of other well-known and very respected developers (Carl and Justin especially) call out your products because of issues like this is NOT good for business.

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pixelentity says

Nonsense. TF theme authors could easily code a plugin for use with their themes in which the CSS and JS necessary to power the functionality could be overridden by including specific files in the theme directory itself. It actually makes it easier for TF theme authors this way since authors can offer a consistent operational experience across all of their themes from a single plugin codebase, and yet still offer each theme a specialized look for that functionality.
sure thing, i can tell by the number of top TF theme sellers posting in this thread, there’s a serious interest in building a common framework.

which would also be pointless since, by the look of things, only a couple of authors here know how to code themes.

BF

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wickedpixel says

[...] Many of you have no business selling themes to the public.

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