Now that would be an issue I think then we would see more staff involvement
Anps, so you like the way it is now, right? I agree, things will change in the future, hopefully, but wouldn’t you like to know exactly what’s the progress in the search functionality, when approximately will we have any changes and other things like this?
You’re fine with them saying they’re listening for all the feedback and taking it very seriously. The same thing has been told for years, they were always listening for feedback, tell me of a company that doesn’t say “We really appreciate your feedback and we’ll definitely consider it bla bla”.
There are lots of Ghost / Muse / phpBB3 / etc themes that with or without the exposure make almost the same amount of sales because they’re not popular right now on ThemeForest. Instead, if we’d keep only the most popular categories on the homepage, exposure would increase, sales would increase and I don’t see any disadvantage.
Ok, maybe it’s too much to include only WP, but including only WP, Magento, Joomla, Site Templates and maybe Drupal would be okay, from my point of view.
Ok, maybe it’s too much to include only WP, but including only WP, Magento, Joomla, Site Templates and maybe Drupal would be okay, from my point of view.
No, that’s really not the way to go. This is what we’ve been talking about for the last 28 pages. About everyone having a fair chance and equal exposure. Limiting the home page exposure to some categories, whichever those may be is not fair-play to the rest.
Either find a solution to provide equality on home, or take those new items out completely. That’s how it should be.
I think you did not read all my post, I definitely do not like how things are now, but all we can do is complain via this forum, and even this thread will eventually be locked, this kind of request are being made for a long time, and apart from some minor changes that were welcome, nothing happen’d… i am just pointing out why the a reluctant to do that.
VF saidAt Envato Marketplaces, we are definitely listening to all your feedback, the good the bad and the ugly
Kriesi saidHope staffs doesn’t see the entire community feedback this way! I think at some point, a single comment may appear biased but if we follow the pattern of comments on same thread or follow the commenter, it will bring better understanding. Of course it is almost impossible to grasp real motive behind any suggestion / complaint when the thread has 100s of comments!
DS says that the profits from a few here are unheard of on any marketplace, I just provide the numbers and show that this is not true and that Themeforest is actually a nice place to sell. Also I think you give people to much credit ;D I would argue that most complaints start because authors are not happy with their sales and then try to find a reason why this is the case. Or do you really think that if the thread creators latest item would have sold 100 times on the two days of the frontpage he would have opened this thread? ;D
We are working on many aspects of the sites you’ve raised in this thread and many others and your discussions provide great input. So does our own data, like for example our extraordinary traffic growth and sales growth as a community. When we make site changes we also check total sales conversions, total sales, as well as individual stats to make sure the results are good before rollin out fully. If we are worried we roll back.
We are listening, and will keep working to improve your results as fast as our fingers can type code and our marketing campaigns can run out the doorHelen
Thanks for the response HelenSouness. But the above conversation (between me and Kriesi about DS & thread starter) was actually an off-topic. Of course I agree the feedbacks aren’t ignored.
Would be helpful if we can get specific explanation for these from appropriate staff:
- What are the plans for stabilizing initial exposure of items.
- What kind of filters the search upgrades will include in the front end interface.
- How the weekly top sellers page made sure it doesn’t diverts buyers focus on new items and search.
The above things were not so serious few years back as the size of library and number of uploads were too short those days. Now almost everything expanded and so the navigation obviously need optimized.
Hi everyone! Lots of good questions and feedback in this thread! I’d be glad to share my personal knowledge and feedback with you, but please bear with me, I will need to break it up into smaller responses and spread them out this week so that we don’t end up with a mammoth epic response that sends everyone to sleep. I’ll keep dropping-by this week to hopefully add some insight.
So the very first question was from FinalDestiny. FD always has some great questions, thanks, FD!
Hello everyone. I’m just amazed when looking at the latest approved themes and templates. In nearly 48 hours they approved more than 50 themes.
What does this mean for the authors? No more exposure.
Take a look at AudioJungle. AudioJungle has approximately 350 items per day approved. AudioJungle authors already know that homepage exposure is ( a ) a nice to have, ( b ) it’s not a “need to have” and ( c ) they know that homepage exposure is not the ‘Holy Grail’ to having a successful item. Does this mean that sales on AudioJungle are slowing down? No, the opposite, they are drastically increasing. Does this mean that AJ authors are not getting big-selling items anymore? Again, no, the opposite, more authors (Elite and non-Elite) are selling larger volumes of their items, and new, talented authors with high quality content are being discovered. As long as authors create high quality items, customers will always be more interested in those kinds of content and will gravitate more frequently towards those higher quality items.
The ‘problem’ (as an author) is that we are competing against so many other authors and so many more items. There’s so much more choice now for customers. So from a customer perspective, this is awesome! And from an author perspective it’s about making sure you’re constantly doing something new and something different and thinking more about the needs of customers. If you items are replications of existing trends and functionality and nothing more – what more is this offering the customer? The appeal of your items and also the service, brand and reputation of your Marketplace account/portfolio should be an author’s primary goal, not the quest for home page exposure.
Customers shop on author reputation, item quality, item value, item/design quality and uniqueness, item flexibility and quality/availability of support (which is always the author’s choice of course, but most TF authors are offering support.) Focus on what customers need and want, make sure you are paying attention to SEO on EACH of your portfolio items, and take some responsibility for your own marketing (and don’t rely on homepage exposure), and this will help authors attain better results than merely submitting a file to TF and thinking that everyone will purchase it.
Our Marketplaces are an incredible platform. But there’s an ‘old-school’ / ‘early days’ mentality I sense that one simply submits an item to the Envato Marketplaces and it immediately becomes an overnight success. The truth is, that’s not always the case. There’s no secret formula to success, but there are variables you can control and there are variables you cannot control. Focus on the variables you can control.
So if you think homepage exposure is getting more difficult on ThemeForest, you’re exactly right, but it’s due to TF becoming even more successful and popular which is primarily a really, really good thing for authors and buyers.
But exposure as a whole is actually increasing. More people are coming here, more people are looking at categories and sub-categories and using search to find content, so more and more people are seeing, finding and buying ThemeForest content. Note something very specific at this point here: Most customers do not come to the home page, see a file, and buy one of the items on the home page. They use search. They research. They compare and contrast multiple items. Customers come to TF with very specific preferences to design, they come with very specific preferences to functionality. If a template or theme or design does not meet these requirements, they’ll sort content based on functionality or will go to a specific category or sub category to find it.
So the opening response I wanted to make here is:
- Is home page exposure a nice to have? Yes!
- Is home page exposure a need to have for a successful item? No.
- Is TF’s popularity increasing? Yes.
- Are items getting more or less exposure as a whole? More.
- Do we/Envato need to think about new ways to better highlight content? Yes!
And that last question in the list above, it’s the crux of this thread, so I’ll touch upon that in a separate post later. This opening response is long enough as it is.
Again, lots to respond to here, I will respond to as much as possible as quickly as possible, but please note that I will be dropping by each day, and perhaps multiple times per day, to ensure all the big questions here are answered. Keep the conversation coming. Thanks for understanding.
Thanks for your input.
But I respectfully disagree,
1. you can’t compare audiojungle with tf like apples and… well meet
2. Uniqueness does not sell, people need flexibility, maybe a unique feature, non the less just compare 2 top sellers, you will get the point
3. Exposure is increasing for tf but as more items and authors are coming in its breaking it down
4. Our own marketing? As was mentioned here we are paying TF for that.
5. Buyers using search?... how… I kind of don’t see it, did try didn’t go well
And exposure is not a must and nobody is aiming for top seller on note of exposure on front page, but for initial boost you need it, almost in all cases you sell those 10 to 15 items first day and then it drops, we are not talking about those items that his big numbers in first day.
There is an easy test for this, tough not possible…remove number of sales from items I bet that would hurt
I bet if you go to hi fi store and there’s 5 similar TV’s and you have info on them how much which sold, it would be much easier to choose.
We are just saying that later on those themes take tons of sales since people don’t have the means to search efficiently.
digitalscience saidWhile this sounds like balancing the exposure, this is almost similar to guiding the buyers to pick different kind of files than what they intended to try (exactly similar to biasing towards Top sellers). We better focus on expanding the choice – and let the buyers decide.
... The solution would be to reduce the focus on top files and top authors, and overall increase exposure to new authors and files.
We not guiding buyers elsewhere, just bringing exposure more into proportion.
Lets look at it logically, the two main areas for exposure are 1) Home 2) Popular pages.
Home page exposure can be less than 24 hrs, whereas popular pages are 1 week.. that’s 7 times more exposure… When the sites first started exposure time on home was double the popular files page.
The perfect system is where the exposure time on the home page equals the popular files page. This would level the playing field, and allow healthier competition and more opportunities for everyone. I think it’s easy to forget that the majority of top sellers all enjoyed long exposure times on the homepage, and are now comfortably enjoying long exposure times on the popular files pages… had they joined the site today – it would be exponentially harder for them to sell items here.
Either home page exposure must be extended to a week, or popular files page must update daily… And then we’ll see a significant change in revenue for new authors and new files. Improvements to search will help too, but home page exposure is important because it’s the front page of the site which has the most traffic – fact. If anyone argues home page exposure is not the holy grail for sales, then they obviously never uploaded files within the first year of each new marketplace and are only basing their opinions on the current flawed system which now relies on the authors independent advertising for exposure.
A popular arugement is – well it’s harder to sell because there are more files…. the only reason why this is a problem, is because the system has not adapted quicker enough for the increase in authors and files.
Because top authors use their own advertising, Envato should reduce the focus of top author / top files and increase the focus on new authors / new files. So overall the Envato ecosystem will be more balanced, more competitive and showcase newer content. With a balancing of exposure top authors will still enjoy healthy profits, and new authors will bring more competition to the marketplace so overall this is a huge benefit for the Envato community. The only people who would object would be Elites, who are going to see a small drop in revenue and are now going to have to work harder and be more competitive – but we should see their current success is only due to a system which clearly hasn’t expanded quicker enough – it’s more of a false sense of entitlement, than a true loss. It is the system that has a large part on how your files perform – lets not forget that. All we need is a little bit more balance.
An official response would be great from Envato about this. But NOT the copy-paste one, please. We need concrete things like “A new homepage is coming, expect it in January 3, 2014” OR “We don’t want to replace design, maybe 2 years later when the pipeline is clear”. At least we’d know what to expect.
Hello, TP! I noticed you don’t have any information on your author profile page. You’re missing out on some great SEO opportunities if you don’t mind me pointing that out. Take a look at how some/most of the top authors on all our Marketplaces prepare their profile page for existing and potential customers.
So back to your question. Here’s the deal: We’re a business. And our business is based on our community of authors and buyers. Because we’re a business with competitors, we can’t always share exactly what we’re doing and when it will be released. So we always have to ride that line between, answering all your questions, letting you know what’s coming, but also protecting ourselves from not laying all our cards on the table so that competitors can see where we are heading.
Look at Apple. Do Apple give a specific date with a full list of specs for their new hardware or operating systems 12-months ahead of time? No. Do we, as authors, tell everyone about what our items are going to look like and the functionality they will have 6 months before they are released? No. Why? Because as an individual or a company of multiple people, it’s common-sense not to play all your cards in business too early, if at all. You want to give as little insight to your competitors as possible. But you do want to try to announce something is coming closer to time if/when possible, there are definite advantages to that.
So when we have the Marketplace General Manager come into the forums like Helen did earlier in this thread to say “we’re listening”, that’s not a copy and paste response. That’s actually a positive statement of intent from someone at the top of the chain here at the Envato Marketplaces that we’re committed to listening to everyone’s feedback in our forums, via e-mail, via Support, via Social Media, and via our Community Meetups and so forth. If anyone still hasn’t seen it, you can see/hear more about what we’re doing and how we’re constantly listening in our latest Marketplace Update video. It’s also a clue that things are being worked on to address these questions and concerns and even if someone doesn’t think that we’re working on anything or does not immediately see changes, it doesn’t mean it’s not happening.
Maybe this is a poor analogy, but hopefully it helps convey the point I’m trying to make here: Just because there hasn’t been a nuclear war yet, doesn’t mean people aren’t building nuclear weapons.
So we have some people saying, “The Marketplaces are ‘broken’, what’s Envato doing to fix them?” and then we have Envato saying, “We’re listening, and we’re working on improvements all the time.” The disjoint is this: Perhaps the community are not seeing everything that we are doing, what we have done and what we will be doing. Again, we may not always be able to reveal explicitly what we are currently working on. But the solution to this issue might be something along the lines of a dedicated page where we show you recent improvements/changes (that have already addressed what some of you have been asking for), projects currently in progress, and planned projects.
So if we did something more along those lines, may I ask if you think this would be at least a reasonable start to helping put all the pieces together to help convey what’s going on around here? Because with insider knowledge, I see a lot of changes occurring already and a lot of short term projects about to be completed and a lot of longer term projects already in the works.
So in the context of ThemePrince’s point, the summary here is:
- “We’re listening” is not avoiding your questions. It’s letting you know we hear what is being said, it may have been brought to our attention in the past too, and it’s mostly likely that we already have plans in progress to address these issues.
- It’s frank but it’s the truth, we can’t always specify what we’re working on. Sometimes, yes, but not always. Likewise, release dates. We know internally when something is planned to be released, but what if something comes up (as can invariably happen in Web development as you may know) and the release date changes? There’s a balance there about timing announcements for guaranteed wins/projects and sometimes the reality is just announcing once it’s done/released.
- Pick-up clues around the forums to see what we are proactively communicating with you. e.g. Search. It’s at the top of our agenda. It’s being worked on. Changes are already being made. But these are just some short term changes and longer term changes are planned and are part of a much bigger project.
- You should already have started to notice that more and more teams and individuals at Envato are more openly sharing info with the community and asking for feedback on projects behind the scenes. We hope you like this small, but useful step/direction. The feedback from our community is hugely important and shapes everything we do here. Sincerely, please don’t think that comments and feedback are overlooked. Good or bad, we see it, we read it, we hear it, we note it, we always try to address it in everything we do.
- Let us know what you think about the idea of improving the way we communicate what we are sharing with you. e.g. A possible/potential page to pull all the information together to better convey recent improvements + share projects we’re actually working on.
Because top authors use their own advertising, Envato should reduce the focus of top author / top files and increase the focus on new authors / new files.
That’s partly true, DS, but a very good point nonetheless that we’re constantly wanting to improve: Help increase the focus on new, high quality content from new authors. Not just promote the best-selling content, which is important, but only half of the equation. There are lots of ways we could do this and have discussed this a lot internally. I can’t personally comment on the specifics, priorities or dates of what’s being done to address these issues (that would be for our Product team to consider discussing publicly when they deem the time is right), but I definitely want to acknowledge that this is not being overlooked as the future shape of the Marketplaces are defined.